US to give Pakistan unarmed drones' technology: Gates

[Interceptor]

US to give Pakistan unarmed drones' technology: Gates

21 Jan 2010

ISLAMABAD: In a major shift in policy, the US said Thursday it would provide drone technology to Pakistan but only for unarmed aircraft - to
partly meet a demand this country has been making for over a year.

"Pakistan's demand for provision of drone technology has been accepted by the US and we are working together with Pakistan Army in this connection," visiting US Defence Secretary Ribert Gates told a private TV channel here.

"We are considering the provision of planes for intelligence surveillance and unmanned planes to Pakistan. Discussions are under way with the Pakistan military leadership on technical matters in this regard," he added.

Ever since the drone attacks in the restive North and South Waziristan agencies along the border with Afghanistan began in August 2008, targeting the Taliban, Pakistan has been repeatedly demanding that these either stop or Islamabad be given the technology to build and operate the missile firing machines.

President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani have on more than one occasion made the demand but until now the US has been steadfast in its refusal.

On Thursday too, Pakistani Defence Minister Mukhtar Ahmed made the demand during a meeting with Gates, who arrived here Thursday.

This year alone has seen eight missile strikes by US spy planes. More than 700 people have died in close to 80 drone strikes in Pakistan since August 2008.

Mukhtar handed over Pakistan's military wish list to the US, demanding the latest weapons and helicopters to enable effective action against terrorists in the country's tribal areas.

Matters related to Pakistan-US defence relations, the war against terror, regional security, the situation arising out of US drone attacks, the strategic partnership and other matters of mutual interest were discussed during the meeting.

Speaking to Online news agency after the meeting, Mukhtar described it as "very constructive" and said he had told Gates to stop the discriminatory attitude towards Pakistan acquiring civil nuclear technology and that Pakistan should be treated as a strategic partner.

Mukhtar said he had apprised Gates of the negative impacts of the drone attacks in the North and South Waziristan agencies and demanded their immediate end.

According to sources, Gates said that Pakistan was taking serious steps in the war against terror and the US would fulfill Pakistan's defence needs for this effort.

He said Obama Administration is seriously considering Pakistan's demands and the matter of a strategic partnership would be reviewed.

Gates arrived here from New Delhi where he said Wednesday said that the terrorists operating in Af-Pak region could provoke a war on the sub-continent.

US to give Pakistan unarmed drones' technology: Gates- ET Cetera-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

[mean_bird]

Its more like an insult than an offer considering pakistan has always been asking for armed UAVs. This will not stop the CIA/USAF drone attacks that the pakistani UCAV were supposed to replace.

Unless these are coming free of charge, we shouldn't spend a single penny on them. We have the Falco UAV which is comparable if not better. Any finances should be focused on developing our own UCAV based on the Falcon or other indigenous designs.

[Xeric]

If they have to give us the UAVs i dont think we would be achieving much from them. We do have our own UAVs and these unmanned drones, though assisting our efforts, would not allow us a complete and absolute superiority against the enemy. Unless we are provided with UCAVs there is no fun in giving us the other hardware as it would again entail using helis, fighters and artillery to attack the enemy positions.

There are two concerns that we have; one, employment of fighter jets and attack helis is expansive as compared to drone attacks, two they are not exactly successful as the element of surprise is lost. With UCAVs we can archive both of these.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by mean_bird

Its more like an insult than an offer considering pakistan has always been asking for armed UAVs. This will not stop the CIA/USAF drone attacks that the pakistani UCAV were supposed to replace.

Unless these are coming free of charge, we shouldn't spend a single penny on them. We have the Falco UAV which is comparable if not better. Any finances should be focused on developing our own UCAV based on the Falcon or other indigenous designs.

I think that the steps taken by the US are far better than that of a mutted response, if we really wanted to stop drone attacks we could have done so. I should remind you that these CIA operation are being conducted with in Pakistan. These UCAV's are flying off our basses for unknown reasons and consequences due to steps that were taken in the past.

If they are giving us advanced drone technology may it not be armed we should invest in it. Since what we have in our arsnal is fairly premitive to what the US is using in conjunction and that includes falco. Rather Falco was inducted into army because it had the ability to target with its laser designators.

UAV is a very advanced field even tough it may seem Pakistan is well ahead with so many variants. The only thing that Pakistan right now has which is credible is that it has a launching base from which it could develop better UAV tech. We are for now better off in investing in tech from outside than to wait until we could master it. Short term measures are better suited for now.

[Interceptor]

US to supply 'Shadow' drones to Pakistan: officials

22-01-2010

2 hrs 22 mins ago

ISLAMABAD (AFP) – The United States plans to provide Pakistan with a dozen unarmed drone aircraft that will help bolster its military as it takes on Taliban militants, US defence officials said.

Details of the drones emerged late Thursday during a visit to Pakistan by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who was asked in an interview with Pakistani television if Washington would supply Islamabad with the unmanned aircraft.

"There are some tactical UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) that we are considering, yes," Gates said.

Defence officials in his delegation afterward confirmed funds had been set aside to secure 12 Shadow aerial drones for Pakistan.

The Shadow drones, smaller than the armed Predator and Reaper aircraft, are about 11 feet (three metres) long and have a wing-span of 14-feet, with sensors and cameras feeding video images back to operators on the ground.

The Pakistani military already had some less sophisticated drones for surveillance but would need to heavily invest in training specialists to be able to take advantage of the new hardware, said US officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The US employs armed drones for missile strikes against Al-Qaeda and Taliban figures in Pakistan, fuelling anti-American sentiment and drawing public condemnation from the government in Islamabad.

Pakistani officials have previously called for Washington to provide its military with armed drones.

US to supply 'Shadow' drones to Pakistan: officials - Yahoo! News

[Solid Beast]

What are you supposed to do with these 12 toys, after almost a decade of reluctantly fighting, a few kites are given as bounty I am sure this really pissed off the military especially Kiyani. Knowing full well that many nations and allies operate much fancier equipment and none are taking on the Taliban in their front yard but Pakistan is stuck fighting them on pick up trucks and suzuki bikes while western forces can call in for undetected strikes and mop up later. I want the most Taliban killed just like the Americans, so I can't understand why more is not done in terms of equipment. There is a specific list of needs the Pakistani military asks the U.S. for and it is constantly sidelined. Meanwhile the U.S. drone strikes continue from airbases within Pakistan.

Giving the Pakistan army what it requires to burn the most Taliban sympathizing bodies as possible is a good thing, because they will be forced to use it and not hide them away. Now with only a few Super Cobra's possibly becoming available and these Shadow kites, I think Pakistan is more inclined to go back to its old policy of blatant Taliban support and other adventurist policies.

[mean_bird]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

I think that the steps taken by the US are far better than that of a mutted response, if we really wanted to stop drone attacks we could have done so. I should remind you that these CIA operation are being conducted with in Pakistan. These UCAV's are flying off our basses for unknown reasons and consequences due to steps that were taken in the past.

No one is doubting that these drones fly from pakistan with full pakistani knowledge and nodding. The question is Pakistan has been asking for drone technology for quite some time so we can use them ourselves instead of US using it. And no one is doubting the power of drones either or their effectiveness in precision strikes.

The reasons are manyfold. First having US drones make them more hostile than they are. Pakistani drones wouldnt create as much hostility as US drones. To ultimately win this battle , we will have to win the people and having US drones does not help. OTOH, some of these areas are not readily accessible 24/7 without the use of drones. Its another question altogether if US is using the drones to help us or to destroy us but I wont be going into that.
Suffice to say that it killed 700+ people none of whom had a fair trial to verify whether he was a terrorist or an innocent person.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

If they are giving us advanced drone technology may it not be armed we should invest in it. Since what we have in our arsnal is fairly premitive to what the US is using in conjunction and that includes falco. Rather Falco was inducted into army because it had the ability to target with its laser designators.

What primitive? Falco is primitive?

Surely, investing in it will take money from elsewhere into this with the added condition that these drones never leave those areas or be used against india. Why would pakistan invest its money on such an ill defined bargain?

Shadow drone itself is quite old technology. Nothing new or worthwhile in it. If we want this, we can buy it from elsewhere. It s not restricted technology and I am sure we can get cheaper sanction free version from elsewhere like china or even develop our own ones.

Also Falco is flown by PAF not army. Army uses the German ones (forgetting the name).

Originally Posted by Interceptor

UAV is a very advanced field even tough it may seem Pakistan is well ahead with so many variants. The only thing that Pakistan right now has which is credible is that it has a launching base from which it could develop better UAV tech. We are for now better off in investing in tech from outside than to wait until we could master it. Short term measures are better suited for now.

That is what the Falco is for. We wont be manufacturing this, so I doubt we will gain anything technologically from this. We will just be a user with a hundred restrictions. Not worth it in my book.

[A1Kaid]

Excellent points mean_bird, I have to agree with you on nearly every point you raised here. Keep up the good work. It's good to read a well informed opinion and point of view, backed up with facts.

[Neo]

I hope we're not paying for these birds, it would be a waste of money. We're capable of building better drones domestically and have already a design better than the RQ-7.

[A1Kaid]

Originally Posted by Neo

I hope we're not paying for these birds, it would be a waste of money. We're capable of building better drones domestically and have already a design better than the RQ-7.

Your right, Pak is already "weaponizing" it's indigenous drone technology which is currently in service being used in NWFP. No need to say anymore.