PakistanTalk Forum

 

Go Back   PakistanTalk Forums > Defence & Geostrategy > Strategic issues


Strategic issues Forum to discuss Pakistan's strategic Issues related to geostrategy, war on terror and general geo-political and military planning.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2011, 08:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
Neo
Administrator
Lt. General
 
Neo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 518
Thanked 448 Times in 372 Posts
Cool Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

By Sam Collyns Series Producer, BBC Two's Secret Pakistan

Pakistan has been accused of playing a double game, acting as America's ally in public while secretly training and arming its enemy in Afghanistan according to US intelligence.

In a prison cell on the outskirts of Kabul, the Afghan Intelligence Service is holding a young man who alleges he was recruited earlier this year by Pakistan's powerful military intelligence agency, the ISI.

He says he was trained to be a suicide bomber in the Taliban's intensifying military campaign against the Western coalition forces - and preparations for his mission were overseen by an ISI officer in a camp in Pakistan.

After 15 days training, he was sent into Afghanistan.

"There were three of us. We were put into a black vehicle with black windows. The police did not stop the car because it was obviously ISI. No-one dares stop their cars. They told me... you will receive your explosive waistcoat, and then go and explode it."

Taliban bases in Pakistan

The man recruited to be a suicide bomber changed his mind at the last minute and was later captured by the Afghan intelligence service.

But his story is consistent with a mass of intelligence which has convinced the Americans that, as they suspected, for the last decade Pakistan has been secretly arming and supporting the Taliban in its attempt to regain control of Afghanistan.

These suspicions started as early as 2002, when the Taliban began launching attacks across the border from their bases in Pakistan, but they became more widely held after 2006 when the Taliban's assault increased in its ferocity, not least against the ill-prepared British forces in Helmand province.

The final turning point in American eyes was the attack on Mumbai when 10 gunmen rampaged through the Indian city, killing 170 people - two weeks after Barack Obama's US presidential election victory in November 2008.

Despite Pakistan claiming it played no part in the attack, the CIA later received intelligence that it said showed the ISI were directly involved in training the Mumbai gunmen.

President Obama ordered a review of all intelligence on the region by a veteran CIA officer, Bruce Riedel.

Taliban commander Najib says he was trained by Pakistan military intelligence

"Our own intelligence was unequivocal," says Riedel. "In Afghanistan we saw an insurgency that was not only getting passive support from the Pakistani army and the Pakistani intelligence service, the ISI, but getting active support."

Training and supplies

Pakistan has repeatedly denied the claims. But the BBC documentary series Secret Pakistan has spoken to a number of middle-ranking - and still active - Taliban commanders who provide detailed evidence of how the Pakistan ISI has rebuilt, trained and supported the Taliban throughout its war on the US in Afghanistan.

"For a fighter there are two important things - supplies and a place to hide," said one Taliban commander, who fights under the name Mullah Qaseem. "Pakistan plays a significant role. First they support us by providing a place to hide which is really important. Secondly, they provide us with weapons."

Another commander, Najib, says: "Because Obama put more troops into Afghanistan and increased operations here, so Pakistan's support for us increased as well."

He says his militia received a supply truck with "500 landmines with remote controls, 20 rocket-propelled grenade launchers with 2000 to 3000 grenades... AK-47s, machine-guns and rockets".
Pakistani military

Evidence of Pakistan's support for the Taliban is also plain to see at the border where insurgents are allowed to cross at will, or even helped to evade US patrols.

And the recent drone attacks in Pakistan have become increasingly effective as intelligence has been withheld from the Pakistanis, claims Mr Riedel.

"At the beginning of the drone operations, we gave Pakistan an advance tip-off of where we were going, and every single time the target wasn't there anymore. You didn't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put the dots together."

Osama Bin Laden's capture and killing followed this same model - the Americans acting on their own, to the humiliation of Pakistan. Trust between the two supposed allies has never been lower.

Bin Laden was the reason America had attacked Afghanistan and overthrown the Taliban who had always refused to hand him over. His death has removed a major obstacle to peace.

Peace talks

But those who claim that Pakistan's hidden hand has shaped the conflict fear the same is now true of the negotiations for peace. Last year, in the Pakistani city of Karachi, Mullah Baradar, the Taliban's second-in-command, was captured by the ISI.

Secretly, Baradar had made contact with the Afghan government to discuss a deal that would end the war. He had done so without the ISI's permission and he was detained "to bring him back under control" according to one British diplomat.

More recently, Hawa Nooristani, a member of Afghanistan's High Peace Council, says she was called to a secret meeting.

Waiting for her was a commander from the most lethal faction of the Taliban, the Haqqani network, which first brought suicide bombing to Afghanistan. To her astonishment he said he wanted peace talks.

"He said it was vital Pakistan intelligence knew nothing of the meeting. He said not to disclose it because Pakistan does not want peace with Afghanistan and even now they are training new Taliban units.

"He was also scared that the Pakistanis will arrest him because he lives in Pakistan and he said it would be easy for them to arrest him."
Former Afghan President Rabbani Talks with the Taliban collapsed after the killing of former President Rabbani

The Afghan government began peace talks with the Taliban but these were abandoned after its chief negotiator, former President Rabbani, was killed by a suicide bomber purporting to be a Taliban envoy.

Any future peace will have to be concluded with Pakistan President Karzai has since declared

To American policy advisers like Bruce Riedel, the message is clear:

"The ISI may not be able to deliver the Taliban to the negotiating table, but they can certainly spoil any negotiations process. So far, there's very little sign, that I've seen, that Pakistan is interested in a political deal."

While denying links to the Taliban, Pakistan insists that it is doing no more than what any country would do in similar circumstances.

"We cannot disregard our long term interest because this is our own area," said General Athar Abbas, chief spokesman for Pakistan's military.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said during a recent visit to Pakistan: "The Pakistanis have a role to play, they can either be helpful, indifferent or harmful."

But there are those like Mr Riedel who fear that the forces unleashed in 10 years of war may yet come to haunt the whole world:

"There is probably no worse nightmare, for America, for Europe, for the world, in the 21st Century than if Pakistan gets out of control under the influence of extremist Islamic forces, armed with nuclear weapons...The stakes here are huge."

What happens in Pakistan may yet be the most enduring legacy of 9/11 and the hunt for Bin Laden.

BBC News - Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban
Neo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2011, 09:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
Neo
Administrator
Lt. General
 
Neo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 518
Thanked 448 Times in 372 Posts
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Pak intelligence helping Afghan Taliban: report


* Taliban commanders tell BBC ISI provided them weapons and training

* Former Afghan official says Kabul gave Islamabad information on Osama bin Laden in 2006

LONDON: Pakistan has been accused of playing a double game, acting as America’s ally in public while secretly training and arming its enemy in Afghanistan, according to US intelligence.

Pakistan’s security service provides weapons and training to Taliban insurgents fighting US and British troops in Afghanistan, despite official denials, Taliban commanders say, in allegations that could worsen tensions between Pakistan and the United States.

A number of middle-ranking Taliban commanders revealed the extent of Pakistani support in interviews for a BBC two documentary series, “Secret Pakistan”, the first part of which was broadcast on Wednesday. A former head of Afghan intelligence also told the programme that Afghanistan gave Pakistan’s former president, General Pervez Musharraf, information in 2006 that Osama bin Laden was hiding in northern Pakistan close to where the former al Qaeda leader was eventually killed by US special forces in May.

Admiral Mike Mullen, then the top US military officer, accused Pakistani intelligence last month of backing violence against US targets, including the US Embassy in Kabul. One Taliban commander, Mullah Qaseem, told the BBC the important things for a fighter were supplies and a hiding place.

“Pakistan plays a significant role. First they support us by providing a place to hide, which is really important. Secondly they provide us with weapons,” he said, according to excerpts provided by the BBC. Other Taliban commanders described how they and their fighters were, and are, trained in a network of camps on Pakistani soil. According to a commander using the name Mullah Azizullah, the experts running the training are either members of the ISI or have close links to it.

“They are all the ISI’s men. They are the ones who run the training. First they train us about bombs; then they give us practical guidance,” he said. reuters/daily times monitor

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Neo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 10:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
Neo
Administrator
Lt. General
 
Neo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 518
Thanked 448 Times in 372 Posts
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Pakistan denies BBC report on Taliban links

By Chris Allbritton | Reuters
Thu, Oct 27, 2011

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan (Reuters) - Pakistan strongly denied Thursday a BBC report that alleged the Pakistani military, along with its intelligence arm, supplied and protected the Afghan Taliban and al Qaeda.

A number of middle-ranking Taliban commanders detailed what they said was extensive Pakistani support in interviews for a BBC documentary series, the first part of which was broadcast Wednesday.

Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik, on a visit to Britain, criticized the program, telling a London news conference that the Taliban were trying to create a wedge between their adversaries by making such allegations.

"We are victims, victims of war, we have lost over 35,000 innocent people, including senior officers, policemen, and normal foot soldiers. I think doubting us is really heartbreaking ... We have stood in the front line," Malik said, referring to Pakistan's fight against militant groups.

"We are facing daily these suicide bombers. If they had been trained by us, we should not be getting ourselves killed," he said.

A former Afghan intelligence head also told the BBC that Afghanistan gave former Pakistani president General Pervez Musharraf information in 2006 that Osama bin Laden was hiding in northern Pakistan, but the intelligence was not acted on. The al Qaeda leader was killed in the same area by U.S. special forces in May this year.

Pakistan's military denied the BBC report.

"We consider that this report is highly biased, it is one-sided, it doesn't have the version of the side which is badly hit or affected by this report," Major General Athar Abbas, spokesman for the Pakistani military, told Reuters.

"So therefore, other than that, it's factually incorrect."

CREDIBILITY QUESTIONED

One Taliban commander, Mullah Qaseem, told the BBC that Pakistan had played a significant role in providing supplies and a hiding place for Afghan Taliban fighters.

Abbas denied this, questioning Qaseem's credibility.

He said the head of Pakistan's spy agency, the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), had already said "not a single bullet or financial support" had been given to groups named in the BBC report.

The United States has long suspected Pakistan, or elements within the ISI, of supporting militant groups in order to increase its influence in Afghanistan, particularly after NATO combats troops leave in 2014.

In September, Admiral Mike Mullen, then the top U.S. military officer, accused Pakistani intelligence of backing violence against U.S. targets including the U.S. embassy in Kabul. He said the al Qaeda-linked Haqqani network, blamed for a September 13 embassy attack, was a "veritable arm" of the ISI.

Pakistan denies the U.S. allegations.

Malik said that "if Pakistan has recruited some people for intelligence purposes," that did not mean it supported them.

He suggested the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and Britain's security service also had connections with the Haqqani group or other militants because they were hunting for intelligence and recruiting sources.

Pakistan supported the Afghan Taliban before the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. It was one of only three countries to have diplomatic relations with the Islamist group.

Pakistan denies BBC report on Taliban links - Yahoo! News
Neo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2011, 09:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Anything new in these allegations. :P
PakiPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 02:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
Members with less than 15 posts.
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Pakistan Zindabad !
talhablog123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2012, 05:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
Members with less than 15 posts.
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Pakistan didn't support taliban after russian war, but America said that they are not enemy with the Taliban even though they have been in war with them for a decade but nw want to back off
raheelmushtaq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 04:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
Members with less than 15 posts.
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Yes! Pakistan never with taliban.........................................
ahashmi248 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 10:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
Members with less than 15 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Hello,

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD.... and INSHALLAH without any doubt it will improve its friendship
aanya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 08:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
Major General
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,277
Thanks: 85
Thanked 92 Times in 73 Posts
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

Seems like the backlash has begun. ;)

Balochistan resolution in US Congress drives Pakistan crazy



WASHINGTON: A resolution moved by a group of US Congressmen calling for right to self-determination for the Baloch people has driven Pakistan to hysteria, with its leaders from the Prime Minister down questioning Washington's commitment to the country's sovereignty.

Following a Congressional hearing last week on the human rights situation in Balochistan, the Obama administration had assured Islamabad that it is committed to the country's unity and integrity, but suspicion runs deep in Pakistan that Washington is intent on fingering the country on account of its covert support for terrorists.

Some hardline American analysts have suggested that the Washington help the Baloch break away from the federation so that American and Nato forces can have unfettered access to landlocked Afghanistan, given how Pakistan has been holding the US to ransom.

While the hearing itself had caused much disquiet in Islamabad and pushed an angry Pakistan into lodging formal protests, the latest resolution has driven its establishment to hysteria and distraction. Pakistan's prime minister Yousef Raza Gilani condemned the resolution as a move to undermine the country's sovereignty, and the Pakistani foreign office and the embassy in Washington took exception to it, saying it was against the "very fundamentals of US-Pakistan relations."

Politics behind the resolution: Introduced by California Republican Dana Rohrabacher and co-sponsored by two other Republican Congressmen Louie Gohmert (Texas) and Steve King (Iowa), the House Concurrent Resolution says that the Baluchi nation has a "historic right to self-determination."

Stating that Baluchistan is currently divided between Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan with no sovereign rights of its own, the resolution explains that "in Pakistan especially, the Baluchi people are subjected to violence and extrajudicial killing," and therefore, the Baluchi people "have the right to self-determination and to their own sovereign country; and they should be afforded the opportunity to choose their own status."

"The Baluchi, like other nations of people, have an innate right to self-determination," Congressman Rohrabacher said in a statement. "The political and ethnic discrimination they suffer is tragic and made more so because America is financing and selling arms to their oppressors in Islamabad."

The statement explained that historically Baluchistan was an independently governed entity known as the Baluch Khanate of Kalat which came to an end after invasions from both British and Persian armies. An attempt to regain independence in 1947 was crushed by an invasion by Pakistan.

"Today the Baluchistan province of Pakistan is rich in natural resources but has been subjugated and exploited by Punjabi and Pashtun elites in Islamabad, leaving Baluchistan the country's poorest province," it said.

A maverick lawmaker from California, Rohrabacher is not new to such controversies, having variously dallied with Khalistani and Kashmiri separatists previously when was a fan of the Pakistan and US-sponsored mujahedin as they drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan. But their transformation into today's anti-US Taliban, and Pakistan's support for the most toxic terrorists emerging from that movement, has moved him from a pro-Islamabad position (he himself says he was Pakistan's "best friend") to an ardent India supporter. He now openly advocates Washington ditching Islamabad for New Delhi.

In fact, the scuttlebutt in town is that Rohrabacher wants to "stick it to the Pakistanis" for their support of terrorism, sheltering of Osama bin Laden, and harassment of US forces. Two days before the Balochistan resolution, the Congressman introduced a separate bill in the House seeking a US citizenship and a medal for Dr Shakeel Afridi, a Pakistani physician who helped the CIA nail Osama bin Laden.

"We are trying to honor him because he helped bring the man responsible for killing nearly 3,000 Americans to justice," Rohrabacher said. "He did so at a great personal risk. He deserves our deepest gratitude." Dr Afridi is being held by the ISI and Washington has officially demanded that he be freed.

The two developments, along with the growing presence of Baloch separatists and their lobbying efforts in Washington, has driven Pakistan, already paranoid about U.S intent, quite crazy. On Saturday, the Nation newspaper, the most virulent among the country's English dailies, carried a lead story under the headline "America again stabs Pakistan in the back."

"Crossing the limits that apply to the international relations barring all states from interfering in the internal matters of other sovereign states, the US once again stabbed its terror-war 'ally' in the back by introducing a resolution in Congress calling for 'independence' of Balochistan," the lead read, making no distinction between the US legislature and the administration.



Balochistan resolution in US Congress drives Pakistan crazy - The Times of India
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

जननी जन्मभूमि च स्वर्गात अपि गरीयसी (The mother and motherland are greater than heaven)
vinod2070 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 08:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
Major General
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,277
Thanks: 85
Thanked 92 Times in 73 Posts
Default Re: Afghanistan: Pakistan accused of backing Taliban

The silly Taliban games could cost Pakistan really dear.

We have a saying in Hindi: Chaubeji Chhabeji ban ne chale, dubeji panake wapas aa gaye.

Meaning, being ambitious can backfire. In this case, the ambitions of the generals overreached their capability and that of their nation.

They may lose what they were given in 1947 and could salvage in 1971.

Let's see if Pakistan can pull back from the brink in time.
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

जननी जन्मभूमि च स्वर्गात अपि गरीयसी (The mother and motherland are greater than heaven)
vinod2070 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 - Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.