PakistanTalk Forum

 

Go Back   PakistanTalk Forums > Defence & Geostrategy > Strategic issues


Strategic issues Forum to discuss Pakistan's strategic Issues related to geostrategy, war on terror and general geo-political and military planning.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2009, 05:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
Neo
Administrator
Lt. General
 
Neo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8,957
Thanks: 516
Thanked 448 Times in 372 Posts
Default Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Will somebody please listen?
Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion


Zahid Malik

'We're entitled to it.'


This is by all means a queer logic by the Texas oil magnate as his argument implies that the United States is a victim of circumstances in Iraq whereas it is there as an aggressor and not as a protector of Iraqi people or their interests. But his thinking indicates how the responsible societies, business communities and States build and present their case and advance their strategic national interests. Americans have played havoc with the poor countries of Iraq and Afghanistan but they are portraying their adventures as legitimate acts and want to grab the booties. Contrary to this Pakistan has been pushed into an unending and treacherous war on terror at the instance of the US and it has been undergoing huge human, economic, social as well as psychological sufferings but has miserably failed to present its case in its right perspective or in a comprehensive manner. This is because of utterly non-serious attitude on the part of our weak and care-free leadership which is more eager to enjoy undue perks and privileges and complete its five-year tenure which now looks to be a day-dream. Let me warn that if the political leadership did not wake up to protect the vital and strategic interests of the country and its people, doomsday scenario is not far off.

It is a mind-boggling question as to why our former and incumbent leaders surrendered to American demands. Ironically, on a phone call from Washington asking whether you are with us or with our enemy - former President Pervez Musharraf totally surrendered before the United States, resisting not a bit which amused even the Americans, Pakistan gave air bases and land route for invasion of Afghanistan under justification that Pakistan was not in a position to fight a war with the superpower. Right, but what Pakistan got in return - only spread of terrorism.

According to credible sources, Washington provided a 'worry and wish list' to Pakistan and it was hoping of Islamabad to accept only a few one and that too after a lot of bargaining but Pervez Musharraf acted in haste on a false message that 'Pakistan would be bombed to stone age'. Apparently, to prolong his rule, the then ruler miserably failed to get anything from the United States whereas, later reports suggested, Washington was willing to provide at least $ 10 billion in return for the much-needed strategic cooperation from Pakistan. This compares sharply and ignominiously with countries which demonstrated the necessary maturity at decisive moments of history and proved to be tough and wise bargainers. That was what the late Egyptian leader Anwar Sadaat did when he visited Tel Aviv in 1977 and later signed much-maligned Camp David Accord with the Jewish State at the US prodding. His visit shocked the proud Egyptians and he was assassinated later but for a price and since then Egypt is the second largest recipient of US aid after Israel. Turkey too was offered US aid package that included about $6 billion in grants and $20 billion in loan guarantees in return for permission for American forces to use Turkish bases as a springboard for invasion of Iraq from the north.

Coming nearer home India through its mature and marvellous diplomacy gained enormous favours in return for serving US interests in this region. They tactfully advanced their national interests in the form of clenching unprecedented nuclear deal while remaining outside the ambit of the NPT. It will not only provide tremendous boost to Indian economy but also give a cutting edge to New Delhi in nuclear, space and missile fields.

It is also getting dual use technology and equipment and advanced military hardware just by portraying it as a counter-weight to the expanding Chinese global power and influence.
In this perspective, one wonders why Pakistan could not gain a single penny while its role was most important as the Americans like a wounded lion were hell-bent to give Al-Qaeda and Taliban leadership a lesson for their attack in the heart of the world's only superpower. It was not possible for US to attack Afghanistan except for firing missiles from the Arabian Sea. It was Pakistan which nabbed around 500 Al-Qaeda fighters and some of the top leaders from its tribal areas and cities and handed them over to the United States. It is not acceptable that it is totally our war and let us admit that it was due to the United States pressure and arms twisting that we became a party to it. In fact, Al-Qaeda or Taliban presented no security threat to Pakistan before our Army, as desired by the Government, pounced on them at the behest of the United States to secure lives of American marines and NATO troops in Afghanistan. As we became the strategic ally of the United States, Taliban and Al-Qaeda elements turned their guns towards us and disastrous string of suicide bombing started in almost every nook and corner of the country taking heavy toll in men and material.

It is true that Pakistan or for that matter no responsible Government would allow its soil to be used by militants, particularly foreign terrorists of all sorts against any other country. Anyhow, Pakistan has become a battle ground and poor innocent people are being killed, and their limbs are flying like soccer. But, please remember these “jihadis” are fighting against US occupation forces as they waged a fierce war against USSR.

Unfortunately, there is no tradition in our country to maintain systematic and authentic data or record of events and in the absence of such information one cannot comprehend or calculate the full magnitude of human casualties and monetary losses suffered by Pakistan since 2001. However, according to conservative estimates given by Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi during a news conference in New York on February 12, 2008 Pakistan incurred losses worth US$ 34.5 billion for its central role in the war on terror. CENTCOM itself released data way back in May 2003 confirming that Pakistan suffered losses of over US$10 billion owing to US operations in Afghanistan. Americans made Libya to pay $ 10 million per family as compensation to the families of 270 passengers killed in Pan Am Flight that exploded over Lockerbie in Scotland on December 21, 1988. If this is made the yardstick then one can imagine the compensation that is due to the families of those killed as a consequence of war on terror. Add to this displacement of hundreds of thousands of families, destruction of their homes, properties and businesses, damage to the infrastructure i.e. roads, bridges, railway lines, electricity distribution system, telecom, schools, health centres, government buildings, police stations, closure of industries, flight of capital, loss of investment and job opportunities, the amount would go beyond imagination. But what Americans have provided us so far - reimbursement of a few million dollars a year from the Coalition Support Fund and yet to be delivered $ 1.5 billion in economic and military assistance annually under Kerry-Lugar Bill but on humiliating terms. Rest is huge loaning from the IMF, which the country increasingly finds it difficult to repay and people of Pakistan are made to digest bitter pills of repeated increases in tax rates and utility charges.

I strongly believe that as President Obama is in the midst of reviewing his Afghanistan-Pakistan policy and doubts are being expressed in Washington as to whether Pakistan would be ready to go along the United States, there is a dire need that Pakistan should urgently work out the losses it suffered in men and material since the launching of the US invasion of Afghanistan. What is more devastating is that the psyche and nerves of the nation are bruised and shattered. The PPP Government owes it to Pakistan not to make any more commitments unless the losses already suffered are compensated for.

Mr Zardari has every right to throw away his much maligned Surrey Palace but he has no right to barter away Pakistan's vital interests. We have lost precious lives and infrastructure built over the past 60 years destroyed and it is our right to demand compensation to be paid to the families of the deceased and to rebuild the infrastructure. I agree, all the poor children of Pakistan, who are being killed here and there are not much privileged Bilawals and Asifas but, Sir, they are citizens of this country of Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah. Please don't sacrifice these innocent souls for your own agenda.

According to my rough estimates which I managed to work out in due course of time during interaction with government officials, economists, strategists and members of the civil society, the country has a right to claim at least $ 60 billion. I also discussed the losses of Pakistan with some of the ambassadors who agree that Pakistan must take a firm stand to demand reasonable compensation for the losses. Pakistan has to rebuild affected areas and create economic opportunities there if military gains are to be sustained and this obviously requires huge funding. At the end very briefly, about Friends of Democratic Pakistan. President Zardari before embarking on a visit to New York in September 2009 stated that Pakistan would be seeking $ 100 billion assistance from FoDP. But later the worthy President, surprisingly enough, said that FoDP was not meant for seeking financial assistance. May I ask then what is the utility of this forum.

I would urge the Government to please be serious and undertake an exhaustive exercise to work out close-to-reality estimates of the huge losses suffered by Pakistan due to its vital role as frontline State in the war against terror and present it to the world community in general and the United States in particular in a cogent, well-documented and forceful manner for reimbursement. If this genuine demand is not accepted, we must say if you don't compensate for our sufferings, don't expect any support any more in the war on terror. It is our right and the Government, for God's sake, should not bargain the fate of 170 million people of Pakistan like that.
Neo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2009, 07:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
wtf
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 198
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Nice logic!!

I was going to work yesterday and ran across traffic to get to work quickly. A US military truck passed by, I was startled, fell down and scraped my knee. The US military now owes me $500 for the damage.

Just because Pakistan had losses in WoT, it does not automatically translate that US must pay. The terrorists that do damage in Pakistan are Pakistani, Afghan,Egyptian, Saudi and Uzbek - Why don't you send the bill to those countries ? What about all the damage Pakistani terrorists have done to other countries ? Will Pakistan pay if India send a bill for Mumbai damages to Pak government ? Osama is said to be hiding in Pakistan - so should US send a bill for 9/11 to Pakistan ?

As far as I can see, US is justified in being in Afghanistan since the people who did 9/11 are in Afghanistan. They did not send the bill to Afghanistan, but have decided to clean up themselves. If Pakistan wanted, they could have done the same before 9/11 too (which they didn't since they were all "good Taliban" then).
wtf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2009, 08:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
Major General
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,277
Thanks: 85
Thanked 91 Times in 72 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

^^ This logic of staking claims seems to be unique to Pakistan! In fact quite prevalent there it seems.

I have seen more than a few opinion makers as well as people on the forums trying to claim that Pakistan has lost X billions because of WOT and for some reason USA is supposed to foot the bill.

Well, terror has caused economic losses worldwide. It is no single country's responsibility to foot the bill and make good others' supposed losses. Every country has to fend for itself.

While asking for aid to help fight terrorists as an ally is understandable, this is something I doubt any non Pakistani can really understand well.
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

जननी जन्मभूमि च स्वर्गात अपि गरीयसी (The mother and motherland are greater than heaven)
vinod2070 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2009, 10:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
Lt. Colonel
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 882
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Holding a Gun to one's own head while terrorizing others
Adux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 01:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
Major
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

And they are demanding $10 million a person ????

This thing is decided by a number of factors such as per capita income, literacy rate, the average person's contribution towards state and society etc. etc. If you guys calculate it on this basis, it would not be more than $600 million. And the US is giving you $7.5 billion. I believe they have most probably overpaid you. If you go to them demanding money, next time you will recieve less. Take care Pak, Americans are no idiots. Never use their theory to your use. They know their theory more than anyone else.
macrocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 03:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
Banned
Colonel
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,220
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Sometimes I feel like asking for reparations for being a participant in these wars is like not agreeing with the core ideology of why it is being fought. It seems like the people are still split...I am sure at least half of Pakistani's would agree that Musharraf made a big mistake by caving in to U.S. demands after 9/11 under threats and thus revealing all of our weaknesses. If you carefully look back, it is because of the supply lines to ISAF that originate from Pakistan that brought most of the Taliban wrath southwards, otherwise Pakistan did not have suicide bombings on an hourly basis.
Solid Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 04:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
Banned
Colonel
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,220
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

I think all the money Pakistan will ever need is sitting in un-collected taxes from the wealthy and middle classes. However the government is not capable of such things when it is being used as a business front for personal gains. It seems like the national treasury is raided too often which keeps dependence on too much yellow bellied foreign policies. As a nuclear nation we have no sack, the world knows while India prepares. If these were the consequences of being a US stooge I would have loved to see the consequences of being a neutral and defiant voice of reason.
Solid Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 05:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
Neo
Administrator
Lt. General
 
Neo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8,957
Thanks: 516
Thanked 448 Times in 372 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf View Post
Just because Pakistan had losses in WoT, it does not automatically translate that US must pay. The terrorists that do damage in Pakistan are Pakistani, Afghan,Egyptian, Saudi and Uzbek - Why don't you send the bill to those countries ?
Who recruited them during the Sovjet Invasion in Afghanistan? Who left them there once the Sovjets left Afghanistan?
I rest my case...

Quote:
What about all the damage Pakistani terrorists have done to other countries ? Will Pakistan pay if India send a bill for Mumbai damages to Pak government ? Osama is said to be hiding in Pakistan - so should US send a bill for 9/11 to Pakistan ?
Nonsense, its comparing aple with oranges. Pakistan is at war which wasn't our war in the first place.

You want to talk about compensation tell me how much we should ask for the '71 war. How much does BD cost in todays money?
Neo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 08:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
Major General
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,277
Thanks: 85
Thanked 91 Times in 72 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo View Post
Who recruited them during the Sovjet Invasion in Afghanistan? Who left them there once the Sovjets left Afghanistan?
I rest my case...
Not so quick. It appears (and you guys certainly claim that) that the militancy had started before the USA joined it. China and Saudis also funded the operations and supplies the weapons. I have seen "Charlie Wilson's war" and that also shows that Saudis funds matched the US ones.

You are asking them to leave you alone now and you will take care of things, they left you alone then and you have issues even with that!

Anyway since when have the aggressors been footing the bill for the mess they left behind? We can certainly claim a lot from the Saudis and others in that case!

You got what you wanted from them during the insurgency. It was a choice you made and you were certainly happy that time, milking it for all its worth. The blowback came much later.

Quote:
Nonsense, its comparing aple with oranges. Pakistan is at war which wasn't our war in the first place.
Then why fight it?

Quote:
You want to talk about compensation tell me how much we should ask for the '71 war. How much does BD cost in todays money?
How about we ask for the costs of 1971 war in which we were dragged due to the events? How about if Bangladesh puts a price tag for each murder and each rape?
__________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

जननी जन्मभूमि च स्वर्गात अपि गरीयसी (The mother and motherland are greater than heaven)
vinod2070 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 06:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
Colonel
 
Selma Shirazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,372
Thanks: 156
Thanked 99 Times in 71 Posts
Default Re: Will somebody please listen? Pakistan is entitled to US$60 billion

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod2070 View Post

Then why fight it?
Did we have a choice back then?
"You're with us or against us" does not leave much coice does it.
So we should have arranged compensation back then for the first 3 years or so. Unfortunately that did not happen.
Selma Shirazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 - Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.