Could Pakistan base nukes in China as it develops its nuclear submarine?

[Neo]

Could Pakistan base nukes in China as it develops its nuclear submarine?

Following the launch of INS Arihant, there has been a clamor in Pakistan for that country to acquire a matching nuclear submarine capability to keep its nuclear deterrent credible.

September 10, 2009, (Sawf News) - Following the launch of INS Arihant, there has been a clamor in Pakistan for that country to acquire a matching nuclear submarine capability to keep its nuclear deterrent credible.

I think it's just a matter of time before Pakistan embarks on a nuclear submarine project, assuming it hasn't done so already, several years back.

It is even conceivable that the somewhat premature launch of INS Arihant had something to do with a similar Pakistani project in an advanced stage of fruition.

Admittedly, I am being wildly speculative. But perhaps less so when I contend that Pakistan will be able to develop a nuclear submarine much faster than India. Here are my reasons for saying so:

It has an impressive record imbibing select technologies as it demonstrated with the Ghauri and Babur missiles; JF-17 fighter aircraft and the Falco UAV.

Pakistan also appears ahead of India in modern submarine building, having acquired know how and expertise with the Agosta 90B class submarine.

Even with the submarine's nuclear reactor, Pakistan is likely to make a quicker headway because of their more pragmatic approach to developing defense technology. In simple English, they don't have a DRDO to lead them astray! Their approach would be to see what the Chinese can give them and quickly build upon it.

Pakistan has a proven uranium enrichment capability so a PWR reactor is likely to be less of a challenge to their scientists than to Indian nuclear scientists who have more experience with PHWR reactors.

Pakistan can and will acquire a nuclear submarine, but not to correct any strategic nuclear imbalance precipitated by India's acquisition of a nuclear submarine capability. That is just the excuse.

If Pakistan wants to retain its nuclear deterrent against India post Arihant operationalization, it doesn't have to build nuclear powered boomers - It could more easily and cheaply do so by basing some of its nuclear weapons in the parts of Kashmir that it has ceded to China, or perhaps in Tibet.

If the PLA Navy can have a base in the Gawadar, why can't the PAF have a base in Aksai Chin or Tibet?

The truth is Pakistan, or at least its army, wants regional power status. The 'aspirations of the people of Kashmir' and the threat from India give the Army legitimacy to pursue regional power ambitions even if it impoverishes the nation.

Whether we like it or not South Asia will become an increasingly dangerous place to live in over the next few decades. Ultimately, India's economic power will prevail. The question is will Pakistan still be a single entity then?

Courtesy: V.K. Thakur

[Mastankhan]

Hi,

Chinese nuclear subs are notorious for leaking high levels of radiation as is the case with the russian subs---which are not as bad---the radiation leak is minimal.

For pakistan---the answer would be a better diesel with a better weapons syetms, better torpedoes, better training---better anti ship and submarine warfare systems.

Chinese nuc subs are no no for pak---their battle computers will not be upto par and neither would their torpedoes be at par with the european ie the german systems---.

Pak navy must stay focused---procure the diesels that it needs and must make a large hue and cry that india is gone nuclear in subs---.

Building a sub is not just building a mini reactor----there is a lot that goes alongwith the package---radiation leak is a very big and real headache in submarine reactors of china---and russian have had similiar problems in their older subs---we will see how india copes with it.

Nuke or not---the weapons system will make the big difference. The european diesel subs will take out the chinese nuc subs any time because of their training, advanced torpedoes, top notch computer for battle system---and silent subs.


The example by the writer of placing pak nukes on chinese territory is purely imaginary fascination with pak nukes---neither would china allow that nor would pak want to do that---.

[Mastankhan]

Hi,

The most difficult part about building a sub is to how to keep the noise level to a minimal---the american wolf class submarines are quiter at over 20 knotts than the los angles class sitting at the pier.

Building a sub marine is a learning process---you cannot build one just from design---it takes time and experience and a lots of resource.

Take it like this----one wolf class submarine can take on and destroy 1/2 a dozen chinese diesel and nuclear submarines at the same time and go on to destroy a couple of dozen major cities, alongwith a few frigates and anti sub hunting ships of chinese origin---its battle management computer is so far advanced than anything else in the world---its reloading of torpedoes into tubes is so very fast----its ability and capability to listen and to analyze is far superior than anything else---and on top of all that---the training and the quality and class of the sub commander and sailors is a notch above anyone else.

I have learnt lately---that even though the chinese sub snagged the american air craft carrier, it still could have done nothing----its torpedoes would have been neutralized---thety would have not found their mark----even if shot at point blank range----the difference between the quality of chinese torps and american masking techniques and noise maker technology is way ahead of others. The americans will get you with a system that you and I or the chinese commander would have never ever heard of.

So----pak needs to stick with the french and the germans for the sub technology---.

[LETHALFORCE]

This would be a violation of NPT by China.

[A.V.]

why does pakistan need a nuclear sub and not aircraft carriers ?india is going for nuclear powereed carriers in the future would pakistan also follow suit ?this tit for that spending will be disastratous for pakistan nuclear sub is not a joke and its not built overnight
a weapon is only good when you have the necessity pakistan can build good quality disel subs under licence and it will be more than enough , the ego fights leads to nowhere arin is stationed above the heart always

[Selma Shirazi]

Nuclear subs are needed to provide second launch capability and Imho there's no long time requirement for aircraft carriers in PN unless some huge oil or gas discovery in Pakistan pushes the GDP beyond $1 trillion by 2020. But that is not likely to happen.

Unlike India Pakistan does not have the desire to become a global power so there's no need to have $2 billion platforms in terms of aircraft carriers.

[A.V.]

but mam,
why does pakistan need a second launch capability? its not the era of the cold war ,nuclear war is not even possible till the end of the world , do you actually think that the world community would let a nuclear war go on a conventional war is even out of the question in this era, the real war is covert , economic war, border skirmishes and tactial denial thats the era we are living in

a practical example is the missile sheild that was a tactical war and see how it ended it depends on the capabilities of implemention of an idea and the idea of using a nuke sub is not practically possible

[Selma Shirazi]

Originally Posted by A.V.

but mam,
why does pakistan need a second launch capability? its not the era of the cold war ,nuclear war is not even possible till the end of the world , do you actually think that the world community would let a nuclear war go on a conventional war is even out of the question in this era, the real war is covert , economic war, border skirmishes and tactial denial thats the era we are living in

a practical example is the missile sheild that was a tactical war and see how it ended it depends on the capabilities of implemention of an idea and the idea of using a nuke sub is not practically possible

Normal people like you and I share this view but unfortunately our politicians don't. As long as there's talk of war there will be need to have the second launch capability since both nations have the tools to cripple eachother.
Just a few days ago I read an article about some special task team in Delhi talking about pre emptive precision strikes in Pakistan, this is crazy and we can not afford to have this threat. Nukes have the sole purpose of creating a deterrance. It will be more credible once we have a second strike capability, maybe someone in Delhi will finally understand the definition of MAD then.