Timur and babur were Uzbeks NOT TURKISH!

[Islamabad]

Omg! apparently some of you still think that the empires that conquered middle east and south asia was from turkey,where in history does it say that? Nowhere, they even conquered turkey and killed an ottoman sultan.These conquerors were turkic uzbeks which are very mix race people with some who look more mongoloid and some more caucasoid but overall the population are freaking mixed.

Timurid and mughal empire were like some kind of hybrids(mongoloid/caucasian) people just like the modern people of uzbekistan.
Both timur and babur claimed decend from genghis khan were from the barlas tribe of mongol.Genetic shows they cluster between mongol and iranians.

Here are the hybrid mongol decentdants of uzbeks!









On the right is the president of uzbekistan


Timurlane




READ THIS
"Timur's body was exhumed from his tomb in 1941 by the Soviet anthropologist Mikhail M. Gerasimov. From his bones it was clear that Timur was a tall and broad chested man with strong cheek bones. Gerasimov also found that Timur's facial characteristics conformed to partial Mongoloid features, which he believed, in some part, supported Timur's notion that he was descended from Genghis Khan"


This here is babur who claim decent from timur and genghis khan.

[Solid Beast]

These conquerors were turkic uzbeks

Well the Turkic part answers your question. Turkey the republic and their inhabitants known as Turks as well as the entirety of the Ottoman dynasty are not the be all and end all of Turkishness hence where the word Turkic comes in. Uzbeks belong in the Turkic tribe and family. Thanks for pointing out their Uzbek lineage.

[Islamabad]

Originally Posted by Solid Beast

Well the Turkic part answers your question. Turkey the republic and their inhabitants known as Turks as well as the entirety of the Ottoman dynasty are not the be all and end all of Turkishness hence where the word Turkic comes in. Uzbeks belong in the Turkic tribe and family. Thanks for pointing out their Uzbek lineage.

Yeah, but the problem is many are still confuded with turkic belong strictly to turkish.I use to think like them too for like 2 years but than recently I found out there were about 8 turkic countries.Modern turkish people are not even turkic genetically, most of them are these so called indegious anatolian who were turkicized by culture and language by seljuks conquerors and later becoming the famous ottoman empire.



These turkmens look just about as hybrid as the uzbeks but turkish people claim decent from them?








Turkmen president on the right

[Solid Beast]

Excellent thread and solid points, Islamabad The Uzbeks are also known as "Bukhari's" in many Arab nations and are well liked because of Muhammad al-Bukhari who was responsible for the work, Sahih Bukhari. Just thought I would include that since we were discussing the Uzbeks.

[Solid Beast]

Uzbek Khanates

In the first millennium B.C., Iranian nomads established irrigation systems along the rivers of Central Asia and built towns at Bukhoro and Samarqand. These places became extremely wealthy points of transit on what became known as the Silk Road between China and Europe. In the seventh century A.D., the Soghdian Iranians, who profited most visibly from this trade, saw their province of Mawarannahr overwhelmed by Arabs, who spread Islam throughout the region. Under the Arab Abbasid Caliphate, the eighth and ninth centuries were a golden age of learning and culture in Mawarannahr. As Turks began entering the region from the north, they established new states. After a succession of states dominated the region, in the twelfth century Mawarannahr was united in a single state with Iran and the region of Khorazm, south of the Aral Sea. In the early thirteenth century, that state then was invaded by Mongols led by Genghis Khan, under whose successors Turkish replaced Iranian as the dominant culture of the region. Under Timur (Tamerlane), the last great Mongolian nomadic leader (ruled 1370–1405), Mawarannahr began its last cultural flowering, centered in Samarqand. After Timur the state began to split, and by 1510 Uzbek tribes had conquered all of Central Asia.

In the sixteenth century, the Uzbeks established two strong rival khanates, Bukhoro and Khorazm. In this period, the Silk Road cities began to decline as ocean trade flourished. The khanates were isolated by wars with Iran and weakened by attacks from northern nomads. In the early nineteenth century, three Uzbek khanates—Bukhoro, Khiva, and Quqon (Kokand)—had a brief period of recovery. However, in the mid-nineteenth century Russia, attracted to the region’s commercial potential and especially to its cotton, began the full military conquest of Central Asia.

[vinod2070]

These Mongols have a fascinating if terrible history. I just read some books on how they rose under Genghis from nowhere and then decimated China and much of Central Asia. A ghastly reading with much violence but also really fascinating.

[ankush999]

Originally Posted by vinod2070

These Mongols have a fascinating if terrible history. I just read some books on how they rose under Genghis from nowhere and then decimated China and much of Central Asia. A ghastly reading with much violence but also really fascinating.

Nice post !!!!! Thanks for sharing great information in this site....


Regards....
ankush

[keysersoze]

There was a fascinating series called "Storm from the east" which covered the rise really well. I'll see if I can dig it up. I have the book somewhere here as well.

[IKF]

I think there seems to be some basic confusion reg 'Turks' (i.e people of Turkic/Turko-Scythic origins/ethnicity) and 'Turkish' (i.e. people living in the modern state of Turkey) here.
There are many people/s of Turkic ethnic origins-- including the various Turkic tribes proper such as the Uzbeks, the Seljuks, the Utmanli/Ottomans etc; then there are also many other people/s living in Central Asia of mixed (not 'hybrid') Turkic-Mongol, Sino-Turkic, Turko-Aryan/Iranian/Indo-European and similar origins.
As far as Emir Timur is concerned, he was a Turk of Uzbek origins, according to historians. However, the Mughal Emperor Babur was descended from BOTH Emir Timur (i.e. Turkic) and Chengiz Khan ( i.e. Mongol proper, Chagatai tribe). Since the Turkic people and the Mongols are distantly related, in terms of putative ancestry, and racial/genetic stock, it is likely that the combination was 'useful' in martial terms.