Who is Ataturk?

[Lady Macbeth]

Heres what some had to say about the great ''Muslim''

Read ''GRAY WOLF : THE LIFE OF KEMAL ATATURK'' in which H. C. Armstrong writes:

Mustafa Kemal Pasha had always been a lone man, a solitary, playing a lone hand. He had trusted no one. He would not listen to opinions that were contrary to his own. He would insult anyone who dared to disagree with him. He judged all actions by the meanest motives of self-interest. He was insanely jealous. A clever or capable man was a danger to be got rid of. He was bitterly critical of any other man’s ability. He took a savage pleasure in tearing up the characters and sneering at the actions even of those who supported him. He rarely said a kind or generous thing and then only with a qualification that was a sneer. He confided in no one. He had no intimates. His friends were the evil little men who drank with him, pandered to his pleasures and fed his vanity. All the men of value, the men who had stood beside him in the black days of the War for Liberation were against him.

The secret police did their work. By torture, bastinado, by any means they liked, the police had to get enough evidence to incriminate the opposition leaders who were all arrested. A Tribunal of Independence was nominated to try them. Without bothering about procedure or evidence, the court sentenced them to be hanged. The death warrants were sent to Mustafa Kemal for his signature in his house at Khan Kaya. Among the death warrants was one for Arif who, after a quarrel with Mustafa Kemal, had joined the opposition. Arif, his one friend, who had stood loyal beside him throughout all the black days of the War for Independence – the only man to whom he had opened his heart and shown himself intimately. One who was there reported that when he came to this warrant the Ghazi’s gray mask of a face never changed; he made no remark; he did not hesitate. He was smoking. He laid the cigarette across the edge of the ash-tray, signed the death warrant of Arif as if it had been some ordinary routine paper and passed on to the next…. He would do the thing properly. He would give a ball at Khan Kaya that night also. Every one must come–the judges, the Cabinet, the Ambassadors, the Foreign Ministers, all the notables, all the beautiful ladies. All Ankara must celebrate.. .. The dance began quietly. Dressed in immaculate evening dress cut for him by a London tailor, the Ghazi stood talking in a corner to a diplomat. The guests moved cautiously watching him. Until he showed his mood, they must step delicately and talk in subdued tones; very dangerous to be merry if he happened to be morose. But the Ghazi was in the best of spirits. This was to be no staid state function. It was to be a night of rollicking fun. “We must be gay! We must live, be alive!”, he shouted as he caught hold of a strange woman and fox-trotted on to the dance floor with her. The guests one and all followed him. They danced – if they did not, the Ghazi made them. The Ghazi was at his best, tearing his partners around at a great pace and giving them drinks in between the dance… Four miles away in Ankara the great square was lit up with the white light of a dozen arc-lamps. Round it and into the streets had collected a vast crowd. Under the arc-lamps below the stone walls of the prison, stood eleven giant triangles of wood. Under each was a man, his hands pinioned behind him and a noose around his neck-the political opponents of Mustafa Kemal about to die. In the great silence each of the condemned men spoke in turn to the people. One recited a poem, another said a prayer and still another cried out that he was a loyal son of Turkey… At Khan Kaya most of the guests had gone. The rooms were stale with the stench of tobacco smoke, of spilt liquor and the foul breaths of the intoxicated. The floors were littered with cigarette butts and the tables strewn with cards and money. Mustafa Kemal walked across the room and looked out of a window. His face was set and gray; the pale eyes expressionless; he showed no signs of fatigue, his evening clothes as immaculate as ever. The Commissioner of Police had reported that the executions were finished. The bodies below the triangles had ceased to twitch. At last he was supreme. His enemies were banished, broken or dead.




(They called him Ataturk - by Emil Lengyel, 1941, pp. 140-141)
During the early days of Kemal’s career, many of his followers were under the impression that he was a champion of Islam and that they were fighting the Christians. “Ghazi, Destroyer of Christians” was the name they gave him. Had thet been aware of his real intentions, they would have called him “Ghazi, Destroyer of Islam.”

And here is what Attaurk himself had to say about Islam -

“Islam, this theology of an immoral Arab, is a dead thing.” Possibly it might have suited tribes of nomads in the desert. It was no good for a modern progressive State.

“God’s revelation!” There was no God. That was one of the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down.

“A ruler who needs religion to help him rule is a weakling. No weakling should rule..” (p. 241: Gray Wolf)

“If only,” he once said of the Turks, with a flash of cynical insight, “we could make them Christians!” (p. 437- Ataturk: The Rebirth of a Nation by Lord Kinross)

[vinod2070]

^^ And to think that Musharraf wanted to be a Pakistani Ataturk! ;)

Anyway, there is only one modern Muslim nation and that nation was made by this man. He must have been on to something.

[keskinta]

Originally Posted by Lady Macbeth

So in your opinion whoever implements draconian laws to -

a- restrict the building of houses of prayer (new mosques were banned)

b- enforce non permissible legislations, dictating how people should dress, that are punishable should they be broken (ie anti-Islamic reforms for banning of the certain apparel significant of Islam ie the turban and the head scarf)

c- execute anyone who dares to rise against him

d- limit how anyone practiced their religion (call to prayer/'azaan' was banned during his time)

e-destroy symbols of a religion (one evening, incensed by the sound of the muezzin from a mosque opposite, which clashed with the dance-band, he ordered its minaret to be felled - pg p. 470: Ataturk: The Rebirth of a Nation by Lord Kinross.)

is a true muslim???


Attaturk could have been a good secularist dictator but never a good muslim.

These are the revolutions in order to be a Modern country mate, we can see The "real Muslims who don't drink in Libia, or in Arabic countries They all Take Poor people's money they make Rich people richer Poor people more poor, Are they the Real Muslim ? Or the one who gave all he's Life to His nation To be a free and not to be like Real Muslim Arabic countries ?
Listen in Turkey Everybody is free everybody can do what ever they want we can't force people to be a Muslim We are happy in turkey and Thanks to Great Solider, Leader And great Muslim Leader Ataturk for this...

[Lady Macbeth]

Originally Posted by vinod2070

^^ And to think that Musharraf wanted to be a Pakistani Ataturk! ;)

Admiring'' someone and ''wanting to be someone'' is two different things V. (exceptions apply to the late Mr Jackson, RIP).

Originally Posted by vinod2070

Anyway, there is only one modern Muslim nation and that nation was made by this man. He must have been on to something.

Erm ok....shunning all that defines a religion is a prime example of modernizing that belief? If thats the case then Iran is a modern Zoroastrian state!

[Lady Macbeth]

Originally Posted by Lady Macbeth

a- restrict the building of houses of prayer

b- enforce non permissible legislations, dictating how people should dress, that are punishable should they be broken

c- execute anyone who dares to rise against him

d- limit how anyone practiced their religion

e-destroy symbols of a religion

^^^

Originally Posted by keskinta

These are the revolutions in order to be a Modern country mate,

Let me get this straight. Are you trying to say, you do all the above and and that makes a ''modern country''???
Hail contempo Talibans! (sarcasm intended)

Originally Posted by keskinta

we can see The "real Muslims who don't drink in Libia, or in Arabic countries They all Take Poor people's money they make Rich people richer Poor people more poor, Are they the Real Muslim ? Or the one who gave all he's Life to His nation To be a free and not to be like Real Muslim Arabic countries ?

You still want to make this thread about Muslims/non muslims and all the shabang rather than about Ataturk? *confused*

Originally Posted by keskinta

Listen in Turkey Everybody is free everybody can do what ever they want we can't force people to be a Muslim We are happy in turkey and Thanks to Great Solider, Leader And great Muslim Leader Ataturk for this...

Ah yes and you call that state a ''secular'' state....NOT a modern muslim state! (not that there is anything wrong in being a secular state)

[vinod2070]

Originally Posted by Lady Macbeth

Admiring'' someone and ''wanting to be someone'' is two different things V. (exceptions apply to the late Mr Jackson, RIP).

Yes, he was a great admirer and wanted to replicate what Ataturk had done for his country.

Peace at home and peace abroad- Kemal Ataturk;
We need not forget the mental make-up of Gen Musharraf because when he took over, Pakistan's armed forces and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were "Islamized" at the lower and middle levels, and even higher up, thus making for political instability.
Although he now does not mention it, but at his very first press conference after taking over as Pakistan's chief executive on October 12, 1999, General Musharraf spotted some journalists from Turkey. Speaking in fluent Turkish, Musharraf told them he was a great admirer of Kemal Ataturk, the founder of the Turkish Republic "As a model, Kemal Ataturk did a great deal for Turkey. I have his biography. We will see what I can do for Pakistan," added Gen Musharraf.

GEN.MUSHARRAF VISITS DELHI NO SIGNS OF PEACE FOR WAR MONGERS!

Erm ok....shunning all that defines a religion is a prime example of modernizing that belief? If thats the case then Iran is a modern Zoroastrian state!

I don't think he wanted tp "modernize the belief". Probably he felt it was beyond redemption and not worth it.

More like getting rid of it, if he could do that.

[Lady Macbeth]

Originally Posted by vinod2070

More like getting rid of it, if he could do that.

Exactly what I have been arguing.....atlast we seem to going parallel on this one.

He just wanted to do away with it. Full stop!

(Never mind his reasons)

[vinod2070]

Originally Posted by Lady Macbeth

Exactly what I have been arguing.....atlast we seem to going parallel on this one.

He just wanted to do away with it. Full stop!

(Never mind his reasons)

In fact, that is the crux of it. His reasons is the only issue important in this whole thing.