Views on the issue of national language in Pakistan

[wtf]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Great article, neo...one small misconception that I think must be cleared...that Urdu, somehow dervied from Hindi...

That is an untruth, since Hindi, as we know it today, is a fairly recent phenomenon...

The first writer who ventured into this territory, was Tulsi das, who as an Awadhi, wrote an epic translation of the Ramayan, called the Raamcharitra Maanus. He based it upon one of the dialects in the area, but the language that he ended up creating was not one that was understood at all. It was full of sanskrit words, and it is a much loved and beautiful, epic poem.

Although this did not catch on, it was only in the early 20th century, with the likes of Mahavir prashad Dwivedi, Pandit Dayaanand, and others who spearheaded the drive to promote heavily sanskritized forms of Urdu/Hindustani, which they called Sahityik Hindi. Lots of journals, and literay seminars were held to encourage writers, authors, and poets to switch from the standard khadi boli dialect of urdu, and promote this new sanskiritized language, shudh hindi.

Of course, the re-branding of urdu khadi boli into Hindi has been quite successful on the face of it, but dig a little deeper, and you realise, that the masses have not forsake Urdu, they still converse in the heavily persianised/arabised khadi boli, without even realising it. No matter how heavy the pro sanskrit lobby is, the heart of the people and their tongues still go to using the word lekin, rather than parantoo/kintu, dunya rather than jug, etc.

Watching a film like Mughale Azam, and seeing it classified as Hindi, or listening to any bollywood song full of persian/arabised words in the Urdu language, and its claims to be Hindi, is quite amusing.

Though less so, when the credit due to urdu poets, and literature is not given.

When the fact that Lata Mangeshkar the great, had to study Urdu to perfect her singing pronunciation, and that she still reads the lyrics in Urdu today, is not highlighted.

When the Urdu language is being systematically killed by the Bharati state, by closing schools, withdrawing funds, etc.

I would concede that Hindi "as we know it" is recent. I would even say as recent as Indian independence. But that said, a language similar to Hindi did exist in the subcontinent far before Mughals. Sanskrit/Devanagiri script existed prior to Mughals too. All you have to do to figure this out is to look at Oriya or Marathi. Maratha kingdom was never under Mughal control (maybe parts in Aurangazebs time). But the language is closer to Hindi spoken today than to Persian. Orissa had only limited Mughal rule and the language is halfway between Telugu and Bihari dialects of Hindi. Similarly, Nepal which was never ever conquered by anybody speaks Nepali which is very similar to Hindi. These both places use the Devnagri script. Emperor Ashoka's Pali (written in a different script) is pretty close to Hindi too.

Since I can understand a Pakistani Urdu speaker and a Marathi speaker and a Punjabi speaker or a Nepali speaker, but cannot understand a Persian speaker (except for a few phrases), I must say that Urdu must be an "Indian" language more than a Persian one. Or alternately, they all must be split from the same root.


Like it or not, Neo is right. As long as Pakistan speaks Urdu and India speaks Hindi and Bollywood remains popular, India and Pakistan culture will remain linked. Whether the language is "Indian" or "Pakistani" will become less and less important as long as a Nepali or Marathi can communicate with one from Islamabad.

The only thing that might work to split the languages might be to replace all the Persian/Punjabi words with Arabic (not parsi). There is already a common indo-european language base underlying all these word.I am assuming this thread goes as far back as Avestan/Sanskrit/German division. Luckily for all the "splittists" Arabic has nothing in common with all these languages.

Oh, BTW, Indians do use Parantu and sometimes use Sansar instead of Dunya. It just depends on the context - Parantu and Sansar is considered formal while the other is considered informal. Indians also use English words during Hindi conversations, again, it is considered informal. At some point the English words become part of Hindi - for ex. the abuse "maather*@#" - the word "mather " is obviously English in origin, but the abuse distinctively Punjabi/Hindi.