Views on the issue of national language in Pakistan

[Neo]

(1) In 1867 there was a conflict between Hindi and Urdu, again in 1952 there was a conflict between Bengali and Urdu, in 1972 there was a conflict between Sindhi and Urdu, almost in every conflict Urdu proved to be the language of the minority voice. No nation in Pakistan spoke Urdu, yet Urdu became the language of the Pakistan Movement. How do we explain this anomaly?

(2) Before the advent of British era Persian was official language of the sub-continent. The Sultans of Dehli were either Turks or Afghans, but Persian, which was language of the rules, became the official & cultural language of India. In fact Persian was the lingua franca of the subcontinent. Babar wrote his memoirs in his native turkish but composed poems in Persian. Shah Ismail of Persia wrote poetry in Turkish while Sultan Saleem Khan of Turki wrote poetry in Persian. Persian spread to such an extent that even noted Hindus Chandra Bhan Brahmin became poets of Persian. In fact apart from our mother tongue all our ancestors were fluent in Persian as it was the language of learning and culture.

(3) In view of the above, it is established, that Persian had great impact on our culture and society, it was this superier unifying Persian culture and language and Islam/the structure and superstructure that was the driving force in our correcting and ruling Hindus and Sikhs in the region. The Turco-Afghan catchment area was our ever-eager recruitment ground for brave hardy warriors from the mountains west of Hindustan, so whenever the polytheist Hindu raised his head, there were always Muslims warriors ready to come down and defeat the Hindu.

(4) Again our cultural and linguistic affinity with the Turco-Afghan nation was our “strategic depth” which was our “security” and an element of awe for the other-nations,Hindus and Sikhs.

(5) The English outsmarted us by disbanding Persian and hence declaring “illiterate” the Muslims of India, they thus encouraged and Urdu to further divide and vivisect us from our Turco Afghan bretheren and use us in their ensuing great game.

(6) We now became a subservient minority in British India, how cunning? Since we had been decapitated our head and heart in the trans-Indus region and a listless body in the cis-indus region.

(7) With all the above in mind, I recommend that we restore Persian again as one of our if not ‘the national language’, it will again give us the depth talked about, again we shall be a Muslim monolith and the awe of the past will cast pallor once more on Hindudom, in fact Kashmir may then become more accessible too. Our original lingua franca, Persian has the potential to aid us in ways intangible at this point in time and has the elements to metamorphose into an undefeatable cultural force of unification and integration.

[Neo]

I like the arguments on this website to eliminate Urdu as Pakistan's national language. But I think Arabic would be better for Pakistan. I would like to share the following speech on the issue:

An address by the late H. H. Sir Sultan Mohammed Shah Aga Khan at a session of Motamer al-Alam-al-Islamiyya

Karachi, Pakistan

February 9, 1951

Mr. President, Brother Muslims,

I can assure you that it is not with a light heart that I address you this evening. I fully realise that what I am going to say will make me most unpopular with important sections of the population. However, I would be a traitor to Islam if I let this opportunity pass without placing before the people of this powerful and populous Islamic nation the views which I consider my duty to place before the Muslims with as many of the arguments as I am capable of using in a short address. I fear some of my arguments will mortally offend those who under totally different conditions gave so much of their life for the support of the cause which I think today has been passed by events far more important than any dreamt of in those days.

I feel the responsibility greater than any I can think of to place my views and arguments before the Muslim population of Pakistan as a whole - each and every province - while what I consider a tragic and deadly step is not yet taken and not added to the constitution of this realm.

The language of a nation is not only the expression of its own voice but the mode of interpretation with all other human societies. Before it is too late, I, an old man, implore my brothers in Islam here not to finally decide for Urdu as the national language of Pakistan but to choose Arabic. Please hear my arguments.

First my argument against Urdu. If what was the other part of the former British Empire of India had made Urdu its national language, there would have been a great argument for Pakistan doing ditto. It could have been a linguistic and important point of contact with the vast Republic of the South. I am the last man on earth to desire to break any bridge of contact and understanding between Pakistan and its immense neighbour.

Not only Urdu but even Hindustani has been replaced by Hindi throughout Bharat as the national language. The people of Bharat were perfectly justified to choose any language which the majority considered most appropriate and historically justified to be their national language. The majority there has the right to choose what was most suitable for them as the official language of the country. Your choice in Pakistan of Urdu will in no way ameliorate or help your relations with your neighbour, nor will it help the Muslim minorities there in any conceivable way. Howsoever you may add Arabic and Persian words to Urdu, there is no denying the fact that the syntax, the form, the fundamentals of the language are derived from Hindi and not from Arabic.

Was Urdu the language of the Muslims of India at the time of their glory? During the long Pathan period, Urdu was never considered the language of the rulers. Now we come to the Moghul Empire in the period of its glory. It was not the language of the educated. I defy anybody to produce a letter or any other form of writing by Emperors Aurangzeb, Shah Jehan, Jehangir, Akbar, Humayun or Babar in Urdu language. All that was spoken at the Court was Persian or occasional Turkish. I have read many of the writings of Aurangzeb and they are in beautiful Persian. Same is true if you go to the Taj Mahal and read what is written on the tombs of the Emperor and his famous consort. Persian was the court language and the language of the educated and even till the early 19th century in far Bengal, the Hindu intelligentsia wrote and used Persian and not Urdu. Up to the time of Macaulay, Persian was the language of Bengali upper classes irrespective of faith and of official documents and various Sadar Adalat.

Historical Facts

We must look historical facts in the face. Urdu became the language of Muslim India after the downfall. It is a language associated with the downfall. Its great poets are of the downfall period. The last and the greatest of them was lqbal, who with the inspiration of revival gave up Urdu poetry for Persian poetry. There was a meeting in Iqbal’s honour in London organised by men such as Professor Nicholson.

I was present at that meeting. Iqbal said that he went in for Persian poetry because it was associated with the greatness of the Islamic epoch and not with its misfortunes. Is it right that the language of the downfall period should become the national language of what we hope now is a phoenix-like national rising? All the great masters of Urdu belong to the period of greatest depression and defeat. It was then a legitimate attempt by the use of a language of Hindi derivation with Arabic and Persian words to find ways and means of better understanding with the then majority fellow countrymen. Today that vast British dependency is partitioned and succeeded by two independent and great nations and the whole world hopes that both sides now accept partition as final.

Is it a natural and national language of the present population of Pakistan? Is it the language of Bengal where the majority of Muslims live? Is it what you. hear in the streets of Dacca or Chittagong? Is it the language of the North West Frontier? Is it the language of Sind? Is it the language of the Punjab? Certainly after the fall of the Moghal Empire, the Muslims and Hindus of certain areas found in it a common bond. But now today other forms of bridges must be found for mutual understanding.

Who were the creators of Urdu? What are the origins of Urdu? Where did it come from? The camp followers, the vast Hindi-speaking population attached to the Imperial Court who adapted, as they went along, more Arabic and Persian words into the syntax of their own language just as in later days the English words such as glass and cup became part of a new form of Urdu called Hindustani.

Are you going to make the language of the Camp, or of the Court, the national language of your new-born realm? Every Muslim child of a certain economic standard learns the Quran in Arabic, whether he is from Dacca or Quetta. He learns his Alif-Bey to read the Quran. Arabic is the language of Islam. The Qur'an is in Arabic. The Prophet's hadith are in Arabic. The highest form of Islamic culture in Spain was in Arabic. Your children must learn Arabic to a certain extent always. The same is true of your West whether Sind, Baluchistan or the North. From the practical and worldly point of view, Arabic will give you, as a national language, immediate contact not only with the 40 million Arabic-speaking people of independent nations on your West, but the other 60 million more or less Arabic-speaking people who are not independent but who exist in Africa.

Right up to the Atlantic, not only in North but as far South as Nigeria and the Gold Coast, Arabic is known to the upper classes of the population. In all the Sudans, on the Nile or under French rule, Arabic is the language right up to the borders of Portuguese West Africa. In East Africa, not only in Zanzibar but amongst the Muslim population of even countries as far apart as Madagascar and Portuguese East Africa, Arabic is known. If we turn to the Far East, Arabic has prospered throughout the region inhabited by 80 million Muslims of Indonesia, Malaya and Philippines. In Ceylon, Muslim children of the well-to-do classes get some knowledge of Arabic. Is it not right and proper that this powerful Muslim State of Pakistan, with its central geographical position, its bridges between the nearly 100 million Muslims of the East and 100 million Muslims of the West - its position of the East from Philippines and the Great State of Indonesia and Malaya and Burma and then westward with the hundred millions in Africa, right up to the Atlantic, should make Arabic its national language and not isolate itself from all its neighbors and from the world of Islam with a language that was associated with the period of downfall of Muslim States. And finally, while Arabic, as a universal language of the Muslim world will unite, Urdu will divide and isolate.

Gentlemen, brothers in Islam, people of Pakistan, people of every Province, I appeal to you, before you take the final and what I unfortunately must say, I consider, the fatal jump down the precipice, please discuss and let all and every one contribute their views. Take time and think over it.

Once more I appeal for Islamic charity from those whom I may have offended and I appeal to all others to look to the facts in the face both historically and as they exist at present.

I pray that the people of this country may be guided by Divine Wisdom before they decide.

[Al-Zakir]

What percentage of Pakistani speak Farsi as a language beside Islamic scholars?

Farsi was the official language of Bengal (modern Bangladesh) also but that is another story?

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by Neo

(1) In 1867 there was a conflict between Hindi and Urdu, again in 1952 there was a conflict between Bengali and Urdu, in 1972 there was a conflict between Sindhi and Urdu, almost in every conflict Urdu proved to be the language of the minority voice. No nation in Pakistan spoke Urdu, yet Urdu became the language of the Pakistan Movement. How do we explain this anomaly?

Conflicts between different languages and their speakers, is nothing new, happens the world over, especially in these post-modern times when language has been given a mistaken 'sanctity'.

The anomoly is that Urdu was the lingua franca of North/East/West India. When a Bengali met a Pashtun, they spoke in Urdu (Hindustani), when a Gujurati met a Nepali, they spoke in Urdu.

Historically, this was due to the patronising of the language of Urdu by successive Mughal Emperors, and then the use of it by the British as the official language of business in states ranging from the Deccan to the Punjab and Baluchistan.

Has it also escaped the article writer, that Urdu was the language of almost all religious, historical, scientific, and recreational literature for the past 300 years in most of India, with even Hindu religious literature having been written in Urdu? Up until the early 20th century, much of northern Indian Hindu scholarship was also in the Urdu language, as can be seen from taking a look at prominent books written in the early 20th, or throughout the 18th, 19th centuries.

Urdu was not just the language of a minority of muslims, but was the language of huge swathes of India, albeit with different dialects. It was only after the war of 1857 that Hindi as a language was pushed forward as an alternative to Urdu, and great strides were taken in its scholarship, and the scouring of sanskrit texts to find words to replace the ARaboPersian vocabulary.

To forsake the lingua franca of most of India, especially that of what was to become Pakistan, and choose Persian above that would have been folly...which is why it did not happen then, and will not happen in the future.

(2) Before the advent of British era Persian was official language of the sub-continent. Persian spread to such an extent that even noted Hindus Chandra Bhan Brahmin became poets of Persian. In fact apart from our mother tongue all our ancestors were fluent in Persian as it was the language of learning and culture.

This was true for a time, but by the late Mughal period, Urdu had supplanted Persian as the language of the elite, and the language of the royal court, too. This was because Urdu was a language of the soil, a true amalgamation of the local grammar based on a proto-prakrit with the borrowed vocabulary of the Aabs,Turks,Persians. It was not the language of just the elite, but rather the language of the king and pauper, the merchant and farmer, hence its popularity in comparison to the beautiful, yet foreign, Persian.

(3) In view of the above, it is established, that Persian had great impact on our culture and society, it was this superier unifying Persian culture and language and Islam/the structure and superstructure that was the driving force in our correcting and ruling Hindus and Sikhs in the region. The Turco-Afghan catchment area was our ever-eager recruitment ground for brave hardy warriors from the mountains west of Hindustan, so whenever the polytheist Hindu raised his head, there were always Muslims warriors ready to come down and defeat the Hindu.

This is a fantasy, and some dangerous rewriting of history.

I'd say that Urdu has a much more unifying effect upon the Indian muslim nobles, than Persian ever had. While the elite spoke Persian, they considered themselves as AFghans, Mongols, Temuris, Turks, Arabs, Persians, TAjiks, etc, and many kept their homeland languages alive in their homes and with othres of the same background. But when Urdu had become established, the nobles became more 'Indian', and those divisions in terms of Afghan, Turk, Arab, etc. were not seen.

The over simplification of muslim rule over the majority hindu India, is far from reality, and sees the events of muslim rule from a paradigm that is false...indeed laughably so.

(4) Again our cultural and linguistic affinity with the Turco-Afghan nation was our “strategic depth” which was our “security” and an element of awe for the other-nations,Hindus and Sikhs.

Another false argument, and a bit of wishful thinking. First of all, Persian has nothing to do with Turkic people, and not much affinity can be seen there, whether cultural, or otherwise, except that they are neighbours, and sectarian rivals.

Was it this same linguistic affinity, that did not stop the likes of Temur, a turk, and Nadir Shah, a persian, come charging into Lahore and Delhi, utterly decimiating the population, stealing the wealth, and fatally weaking the muslim kings and emeroros of INdia? Which finally led to its easy defeat by the British?

It is whisful thinking that just by us speaking persian, or even Arabic, we will gain some kind of strategic benefit out of it.

(5) The English outsmarted us by disbanding Persian and hence declaring “illiterate” the Muslims of India, they thus encouraged and Urdu to further divide and vivisect us from our Turco Afghan bretheren and use us in their ensuing great game.

Wrong again. Persian was already a dying language, and the only 'encouragement' that the British gave to Urdu, was sustaining the status quo...again Turco Afghan...more than half the Afghan population was not persian speaking, while the Turks have a language of their own...it's called, Turkish, which is a very different language from Persian.

I'm sorry to be the bringer of 'harsh realities', but the fact that muslims in India spoke Urdu rather than Persian (which was never more than an elitist language) couuld never be considered a reason for muslim division (whatever that means, since the Afghan and Iraanian Empire had been seperate from India for quite some time) or helping the so-called great game.

(6) We now became a subservient minority in British India, how cunning? Since we had been decapitated our head and heart in the trans-Indus region and a listless body in the cis-indus region.

more ramblings...this wannabe poet blames all that on Urdu?

(7) With all the above in mind, I recommend that we restore Persian again as one of our if not ‘the national language’, it will again give us the depth talked about, again we shall be a Muslim monolith and the awe of the past will cast pallor once more on Hindudom, in fact Kashmir may then become more accessible too. Our original lingua franca, Persian has the potential to aid us in ways intangible at this point in time and has the elements to metamorphose into an undefeatable cultural force of unification and integration.

What a complete fantasy, and a complete waste of time, for him to dredge up this red herring.

We should get rid of Urdu, because a minority of it speak it as their first language, but almost everyone speaks it as their second?

While we should make Persian official, when almost no one outside of academia understandsd the language (let alone speak it fluently), and it is no one's first language, nor second, nor third?

Even going with ARabic might hold 'some' benefit, in terms of allying with the Arab block, but completely overhauling the Pakistani system, to make persian the official language, we'll be doing exactly what the writer complained of "make 99 percent of the population illeterate again, untill we spend the next 100 years teaching everyone persian".

I'd just had laughed at this preposterous article, if it hadn't wound me up so much.

[DarkStar]

Great article, neo...one small misconception that I think must be cleared...that Urdu, somehow dervied from Hindi...

That is an untruth, since Hindi, as we know it today, is a fairly recent phenomenon...

The first writer who ventured into this territory, was Tulsi das, who as an Awadhi, wrote an epic translation of the Ramayan, called the Raamcharitra Maanus. He based it upon one of the dialects in the area, but the language that he ended up creating was not one that was understood at all. It was full of sanskrit words, and it is a much loved and beautiful, epic poem.

Although this did not catch on, it was only in the early 20th century, with the likes of Mahavir prashad Dwivedi, Pandit Dayaanand, and others who spearheaded the drive to promote heavily sanskritized forms of Urdu/Hindustani, which they called Sahityik Hindi. Lots of journals, and literay seminars were held to encourage writers, authors, and poets to switch from the standard khadi boli dialect of urdu, and promote this new sanskiritized language, shudh hindi.

Of course, the re-branding of urdu khadi boli into Hindi has been quite successful on the face of it, but dig a little deeper, and you realise, that the masses have not forsake Urdu, they still converse in the heavily persianised/arabised khadi boli, without even realising it. No matter how heavy the pro sanskrit lobby is, the heart of the people and their tongues still go to using the word lekin, rather than parantoo/kintu, dunya rather than jug, etc.

Watching a film like Mughale Azam, and seeing it classified as Hindi, or listening to any bollywood song full of persian/arabised words in the Urdu language, and its claims to be Hindi, is quite amusing.

Though less so, when the credit due to urdu poets, and literature is not given.

When the fact that Lata Mangeshkar the great, had to study Urdu to perfect her singing pronunciation, and that she still reads the lyrics in Urdu today, is not highlighted.

When the Urdu language is being systematically killed by the Bharati state, by closing schools, withdrawing funds, etc.

[A1Kaid]

I find this topic very interesting, that Urdu should be replaced with Farsi.


You know if Pakistan had adopted Farsi, we would be culturally closer to the Persians, in fact there would have been a "Farsi Speaking belt", Iran-Afghanistan-Tajikistan-Pakistan. Some of the pros of this move would mean we would have access to a world of Persian news, books, articles, literature, poetry, songs, and more.

Currently Pakistan is officially a dual-language state, using both Urdu and English (as official languages) (yes there are other languages spoken...) but if Pakistanis decide not to ditch Urdu than perhaps Pakistan should work toward adopting a new language (perhaps Persian) and yet maintaining Urdu. Finally, it should also be taken unto consideration that Pres.Gov. and Founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah desired Urdu to be the official language of Pakistani people, so replacing Urdu with Farsi would contradict and go against Quaid e Azam's aspiration and desire. However, let's not forget Allama Iqbal felt Farsi should be made the national language of Pakistan.

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by A1Kaid

I find this topic very interesting, that Urdu should be replaced with Farsi.


You know if Pakistan had adopted Farsi, we would be culturally closer to the Persians, in fact there would have been a "Farsi Speaking belt", Iran-Afghanistan-Tajikistan-Pakistan. Some of the pros of this move would mean we would have access to a world of Persian news, books, articles, literature, poetry, songs, and more.

Currently Pakistan is officially a dual-language state, using both Urdu and English (as official languages) (yes there are other languages spoken...) but if Pakistanis decide not to ditch Urdu than perhaps Pakistan should work toward adopting a new language (perhaps Persian) and yet maintaining Urdu. Finally, it should also be taken unto consideration that Pres.Gov. and Founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah desired Urdu to be the official language of Pakistani people, so replacing Urdu with Farsi would contradict and go against Quaid e Azam's aspiration and desire. However, let's not forget Allama Iqbal felt Farsi should be made the national language of Pakistan.

You have not touched the points that I countered with, in terms of this so called persian speaking belt, and the impracticality of imposing a language that is foreign to almost everyone in Pakistan.

central asia is not Farsi speaking, nor is eastern/southern Afghanistan, nor is southern Iran.

[Al-Zakir]

No doubt Farsi is one of the most articulate language in the world so is Urdu. Why Urdu is being denounce in present time when Urdu was made national language of Pakistan despite what majority spoke. Farsi was only spoken and practice by Mughal, Persian descent Muslim and religious scholars in subcontinent thus were Farsi actually fit in Pakistan or any other region in subcontinent. I think Urdu is well fit in today's Pakistan from Karachi to Peshawar thus further language movement may may cause unwanted disturbance. Urdu also developed and mature in subcontinent thus it is the language of subcontinent.

If such drastic change take place than I will suggest Arabic should be national language of Pakistan because Arabic is the official language of Islam and all Muslim must know it more or less.

[A1Kaid]

Originally Posted by Al-Zakir

No doubt Farsi is one of the most articulate language in the world so is Urdu. Why Urdu is being denounce in present time when Urdu was made national language of Pakistan despite what majority spoke. Farsi was only spoken and practice by Mughal, Persian descent Muslim and religious scholars in subcontinent thus were Farsi actually fit in Pakistan or any other region in subcontinent. I think Urdu is well fit in today's Pakistan from Karachi to Peshawar thus further language movement may may cause unwanted disturbance. Urdu also developed and mature in subcontinent thus it is the language of subcontinent.

If such drastic change take place than I will suggest Arabic should be national language of Pakistan because Arabic is the official language of Islam and all Muslim must know it more or less.

You fail to understand the reasons against the adoption of Arabic in Pakistan. There are significant reasons why making Arabic the mother-language in Pakistan is problematic, from several aspects. Please read below as their is a cross-analysis of Arabic vs Persian/Farsi/Dari language for Pakistan.

I prefer Arabic over Urdu as Pakistan's national language when choosing between the two. However, the third and better option is definitely Dari/Farsi. Let's analyze a bit:

Arabic

1. Historically, Arabic was used as an official language in Pakistan region (excluding the north) only during the brief period of Arab rule (711-855/1010 AD). So, Arabic language has very little historical basis in Pakistan.

2. Linguistically, Arabic is a Semitic language unrelated to the Indo-Iranian languages of Pakistan. Thus, Arabic language is an alien language to Pakistan's native languages (minus the loan-words and script).

3. Geographically, the Arab world is detached from Pakistan, with no land linking them. Therefore, an Arabized Pakistan will be an isolated Arabic island in the middle of an Indo-Iranian regional bloc.

4. Arab extremists and their hatemongering ideologies (Wahabism/etc.) have caused instability in Pakistan with sectarian violence. Arabic as Pakistan's national language will further welcome those destructive elements and make the country unstable.

5. Arabic might be the language in which Quran was originally written, but the Quran is and can always be translated. Just because the Bible (New Gospel) might have been originally written in Aramaic language, it does not mean that all Christian countries should adopt Aramaic as their national language!

6. Arabic language is only the mother-tongue of ethnic Arabs, and except for the Quranic usage/purposes it is not used/spoken by non-Arabs.

Dari/Farsi

1. Historically, Dari/Farsi was used in Pakistan region through out most of its pre-British history. The Muslim rulers such as Ghaznavids, Ghorids, Slave dynasty, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Syeds, Lodhis, Suris, Mughals, and Abdali exclusively used Farsi/Dari as its official language through out their empires/kingdoms. Even the local kingdoms such as those of Ranjit Singh, the Talpurs, Khanate of Kalat, etc. used Farsi/Dari as its official language. And before the advent of Islam, various Iranian languages (derived or related to Dari/Farsi) were used in Pakistan region such as Vedic, Old Persian, Pahlvi, Old Saka, Bactrian, and Tocharian during RigVedic Aryan, Achaemenian, Scythian, Parthian, Greco-Bactrian, Kushan, and Hephthalite periods. So, Dari/Farsi has a solid historical basis in the region of Pakistan.

2. Linguistically, Dari/Farsi is an Indo-Iranian language related to the Indo-Iranian languages of Pakistan. Thus, Dari/Farsi language is not an alien language to Pakistan's native languages and belong to the same family of languages (plus the loan-words and script).

3. Geographically, the Dari/Farsi-speaking world (Iran, Afghanistan, and parts of Central Asia) are Pakistan's western and northern neighbors. Therefore, a Dari/Farsi-speaking Pakistan will attach Pakistan to the Central Asian/Pax Iranica regional bloc.

4. With Farsi/Dari as Pakistan's national language, it will counter religious extremism in the region since Sunni extremism from Pakistan would be checked by Shia Iran and Shia extremism from Iran would be checked by Sunni Pakistan.

5. Dari/Farsi is a well developed and sophisticated language. It has been used through out its history for science, medicine, literature, administration, arts, etc. When Arabs invaded the great Persian empire they adopted much of its civilization and integrated it within Arab/Islamic culture. Dari/Farsi film industry is world renowned for its classical/artistic and decent/mature movies.

6. Dari/Farsi language is not the mother-tongue of any single ethnic group. It is spoken by Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Azeris, Persians, Kurds, Baluchs, Pashtuns, Hazaras, etc. in Iran-Afghanistan-CAsia region.

The arguments and reasons listed above are well-presented and well researched (few exceptions).


One of the major arguments against Pakistan adopting Arabic is Pakistan would linguistically be isolated because it is geographically isolated from any Arab speaking land mass or country. Let's examine the region around Pakistan, to the East the arch enemy speaks Hindi and other peasantry languages, to the North, Central Asia Turkic is spoken and other local languages, to the West, Pashto, Dari/Farsi is spoken.


We must take this unto consideration.

[A1Kaid]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

You have not touched the points that I countered with, in terms of this so called persian speaking belt, and the impracticality of imposing a language that is foreign to almost everyone in Pakistan.

Tajikistan is not Farsi speaking, nor is eastern/southern Iran, nor is southern Afghanistan.

The assessment you have made is incomplete and false because you fail to insert the fact that in Eastern Iran and Western Afghanistan even Central and SE Afghanistan the language (and lingua franca) is Dari (Eastern Farsi/Persian) it is a dialect of Persian.


In fact, in Afghanistan, Dari is considered the official language next to Pashto. Dari is widely spoken in Afghanistan, and Dari can also be understood in SE Iran. Not to mention various Afghan tribes currently speak Dari/Farsi or as it is called Farsi-e-Dari...

So geographically, The "Farsi-belt" would hold up.



Please read the excerpt below for more information:

"Iranian languages have been and are still widely used in Central Asia both by native speakers and as trade languages. Whereas in the past East Iranian languages, such as Bactrian, Sogdian and Khotanese, and West Iranian languages, notably Parthian and Middle Persian were prominent, New Persian has supplanted most of these languages. Only in the Pamir Mountains there are still pockets of speakers of East Iranian languages left, such as Shughni, Sarikoli, Yazgulami, and Sanglechi-Ishkashmi, thanks to their relative isolation.

Dari Persian is considered to be a more archaic form of (New) Persian. It is the major language of Afghanistan, one of the two official languages (next to Pashto). In practice though it serves as the de facto lingua franca among the various, different ethno-linguistic groups. Dari Persian dominates in the northern and western parts, and the capital, Kabul, in the east.

Dari Persian has contributed to the majority of Persian borrowings in South Asian languages, such as Hindi-Urdu, Panjabi, Bengali, etc., as it was the administrative and cultural language of the Persocentric Mughal Empire and served as the lingua franca throughout the Indian subcontinent for centuries. "

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_(Eastern_Persian) (I checked the footnotes for the source/references and they are valid)


Yes there maybe some vocabulary differences between the Persian Dari in Afghanistan and the Persian Farsi in Iran, however, it is important to note communication and understanding between the two languages is relatively strong and understandable...Contributing to the strength of the "Farsi Belt".


Please read below:

"The Persians however did not forget their own language and little by little the Middle Persian was being shaped into new Persian but with the addition of a considerable amount of Arabic and Parthian words in Arabic script. This new style was the mother of both Farsi and Dari. Officially, Farsi is The Persian of Iran and Dari is the Persian spoken in Afghanistan."

Source:http://www.afghan-web.com/language/farsidari.html

"Persian is spoken today primarily in Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan, but was historically a more widely understood language in an area ranging from the Middle East to India. Significant populations of speakers in other Persian Gulf countries (Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, Republic of Yemen and the United Arab Emirates), as well as large communities around the World.

Total numbers of speakers is high: about 55% of Iran's population are Persian speakers; about 65% of Tajikistan's population are Tajik-Persian speakers: over 25% of the Afghanistan's population are Dari-Persian speakers; and about 1% of the population of Pakistan are Dari-Persian speakers as well. "

Source: http://www.iranchamber.com/literatur...n_language.php (Also please examine the "Persian Language Area" map provided by this informative website...



Here is a map that clearly identifies the "Persian language area", contributing to the "Persian-belt" or "Farsi/Dari-Belt".





So yes, the concept of the "Persian belt" or "Farsi/Dari-Belt" is realistic, and if Pakistan were to adopt Farsi it would strengthen the linguistic and cultural bond with our North and Western neighbors.