PAA Attack Helicopter Procurements

[A1Kaid]

AH-64A/D Apache Attack Helicopter, USA







Key Data:

Crew: 2 - pilot and copilot / gunner
Dimensions: Main Rotor Blade Diameter 14,630cm
Height 3,590cm
Empty Weight 5,352kg
Performance: Maximum Cruising Speed 260km/h
Maximum Rate of Climb 942m/min
Maximum Vertical Rate of Climb 474m/min
Range 400km on internal fuel 1,900km on internal and external fuel
Endurance 3hrs 9min on internal fuel
g Limit Values +3.5g to -0.5g

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Eurocopter/Tiger Attack Helicopter, Germany & France







Dimensions:

Length 14m
Height 3.81m
Wingspan 13m
Design Mission Weight 5,400kg
Alternate Gross Weight 6,000kg

Weapons:

Trigat Missile Range 500m to 5km
Maximum Air-to-Air Missile Range Over 5km autonomously
Target Identification and Engagement 5km

Performance:

Hover Out of Ground Effect
Multi-role version - 3,200m
Combat support version - 3,500m
Vertical Rate of Climb
Multi-role version - 5.2m/sec
Combat support version - 6.4m/sec
Maximum Rate of Climb
Multi-role version - 10.7m/sec
Combat support version - 11.5m/sec
Flight Speed, Armed
Multi-role version - 145kt
Combat support version - 155kt
Cruise Speed
124kt
Design Limit Speed
Multi-role version - 161kt
Combat support system - 174kt
Maximum Range, Internal Fuel
800km
Mission Endurance
2 hours 50 minutes
Maximum Endurance, Internal Fuel
3 hours 25 minutes
Agility
40º angle of yaw after first second

Fuel Capacity:

Maximum Internal Fuel 1,020kg
Maximum Internal and External Fuel 1,575kg

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ATAK T-129, Turkey





Specifics

Crew: 2 pilots
Length: 14.6 m (47 ft 11 in)
Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
Disc area: 444.9 m² (4,789 ft²)
Max takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb) Powerplant: 2× LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each Propellers: five blade rotor

Performance

Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
Range: 561 km (303 nm, 341 mi)
Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nm, 620 mi)

Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
Rockets: 4 pods with
38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
12.7 mm machine gun-pod
Missiles: 8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER anti-tank missiles and Sura D/Snora.
4-8× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles




AH-1 Super Cobra, US







Dimensions:
Length 13.9m
Height 4.02m
Rotor Diameter 14.63m

Weights:
Empty Weight 12,200lb (10,920lb)
Maximum Gross Weight 16,800lb (14,750lb)
Internal Fuel 2,755lb (2,086lb)
Maximum Ordnance 3,914lb (1,661lb)
Hovering Out of Ground Effect (HOGE) Gross Weight 16,600lb (10,300lb)

Engines:
Powerplant 2 x General Electric T700-401 rated at 1,625shp

Performance:
Maximum Airspeed 210kt (170kt)
Cruise Speed at Altitude 3,000ft and 91.5°F 210kt (170kt)
Cruise Speed at Altitude 4,000ft and 95°F 137kt (131kt)
Maximum Range With 20 Minutes Reserve Fuel 350nm
Endurance With 20 Minutes Reserve Fuel 3hr 30min (2h 48min)
Maximum G-load +3.2g (+2.5g)
Minimum G-load -0.5g (+0.5g)
Vertical Rate of Climb at Altitude 3,000ft 1,740ft/min (645ft/min)
Vertical Rate of Climb at Altitude 4,000ft 1,386ft/min (315ft/min)

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AH-2 Rooivalk, South Africa







Key Data:
Crew Pilot, weapon systems officer
Missions Anti-armour, ground suppression, anti-helicopter, ferry, reconnaissance and counter-insurgency

Dimensions:
Main Rotor to Tail Rotor 18,732mm
Main Rotor Diameter 15,580mm
Overall Height 5,187mm
Weights: Maximum Take-Off Weight 8,750kg
Minimum Operating Weight 5,730kg
Maximum Internal Fuel 1,469kg

Engines:

Powerplant 2 x Makila 1K2
Twin-Engine Take-Off Rating 2,243kW
Single-Engine, Super Continence 1,660kW
Performance: Fast Cruise Speed 150kt
Maximum Sideways Speed 50kt
Maximum Rate of Climb, Twin-Engine Operation 2,620ft/min
Maximum Rate of Climb, Single-Engine Operation 1,280ft/min
Maximum Range, Internal Fuel 700km
Maximum Range, External Fuel 1,280ft/min
Maximum Hover Ceiling (OGE) Out-of-Ground Effect 17,900ft
Maximum Hover Ceiling (IGE) In-Ground Effect 19,200ft
Excess Hover Power margin OGE, Sea-Level Anti-Tank Mission 39%

Armament:

Missiles 8 or 16 anti-tank missiles, 7in SAL missile or HOT3
Air-to-air missiles, infrared guidance Rockets
38 or 76 70mm unguided rockets, variation of warheads
Cannon 20mm F2 cannon, high-velocity ammunition (900 rounds)

Sighting Systems: Dual Helmet-Mounted Sight and Display (HMSD)
Stabilised nose-mounted sight with FLIR, TV, laser rangefinder, laser designator and autotracking

Avionics:
Total mission modes
Target acquisition
Flight control
Health and usage monitoring
Communications
Threat detection and control
Flight and fuel

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Sources:

Army Technology

T129 | AgustaWestland

[keysersoze]

Well the Rooivalk in not in production anymore.....

[Solid Beast]

Not only that, some of these helicopters are not even inducted or on their way out...Safest quickest measure would be to procure Euro Tiger. Other than that, even if the U.S. offered us Super Cobra's I would be cautious. The best bet would be to develop one ourselves without any outside assistance, a design that should be based on the Cobra's we have flown and our needs for the future. A whole medley of weapons can be developed from this as well, replacing our ATGM assets as well as indigenous A2A missiles. What Turkey did essentially bought them a lot of time in R&D as a lot of components are similar to Mangusta. We should buy Eurocopters as a stop gap until Pakistan can field it's own attack helicopter. If we can make attack helicopters at a steady pace of at minimum 15 a year, no one will be able to deny our nuclear prowess. Army Aviation is a critical node and we should not subject them to going through America as a source ever again, seeing as how our best equipment tends to rely on their spares most of the time.

[Solid Beast]

Tigers are also battle proven, something a lot of helicopters we seem to want lack...

YouTube - French Tiger Attack Helicopter Arrives in Afghanistan

YouTube - French Tiger Attack Helicopter Arrives in Afghanistan

[A1Kaid]

Originally Posted by Solid Beast

Tigers are also battle proven, something a lot of helicopters we seem to want lack...

YouTube - French Tiger Attack Helicopter Arrives in Afghanistan

Yes last I heard France is willing to offer Pakistan the Eurocopter, what is the status of the procurement?


I've also read that Pakistan is interested in the T-129, it's realistically possible the Turks may offer the T-129 to Pakistan, in spite of the immense expense, because of flexible credit and loans.


Which do you think is the better choice Eurocopter or T-129?

I think we out to opt for the T-129 one for political reasons and two military reasons. France & Germany may come under pressure by foreign powers to not sell Pakistan such advance attack helicopters which could become a controversial deal. However, there is simply more trusts with the Turks as far as technology sharing, common aims and goals, and more. Also I think it would be a great way to further develop military ties with the Turks.

As far as battle proven goes, the predecessor A129 is battle proven and as far the T-129 goes it's in experimentation and rigorous testing, and if need be we can battle prove this thing ourselves.

[Araz]

I dont know what happened to the tiger deal. Apparently these were refurbished helos at a fairly reasonable price. However, they still do not solve our problems of what to do now, as none of the helos are available as of now.
Araz

[Solid Beast]

Which do you think is the better choice Eurocopter or T-129?

The thing is both are good. Both are much better than Cobras of PAA. Question is about timing. T-129 will be flying for Turkey in 2013 or 14, so figure if Pakistan tests out this platform it will be in 2015 or after. Eurocopter is already pounding Taliban anthills. The current PAA strength is really weak. It depends on what is already on the stove for them. If nothing then going for Tiger would have been good. But I suspect American gunships are coming. The problem will be when it comes time to replace all the Cobras. By then the Turkish option will be easier to analyze. As of now, I still stand by saying Tiger is the best option. So what if they will not initially come with new generation anti tank missile, which tank have we seen the Taliban driving?

[Solid Beast]

T-129 isn't a finished product. I'm personally not too crazy about the Mangusta platform either.

[Araz]

The only realistic option for PA at the moment is either AH1Zor tiger. We need to wait and let ATAK129 mature and that will take us into 2017--18. We may also have a Chinese competitor then biut at the moment the above are the only realistic option.
Araz

[Interceptor]

What about Super cobra imo thats the only realistic option that we can use right away, since we would have to train our pilots for any of the other attack helicopters. If PA wants something ready to use than the Super Cobra will be right on their list. Since any other venture would require a few years at least to aquire the platform and then another couple to complete the training.