China to provide PAF 4 trainer aircrafts

[Interceptor]

China to provide PAF 4 trainer aircrafts, 60 Million Yuan for training armed forces

May 24, 2010

China has agreed to provide four trainers aircrafts for Pakistan Air Force and 60 Million Yuan for training purposes of the Armed Forces of Pakistan.
Both countries signed agreements to this effect in Ministry of Defence on Monday. Federal Minister for Defence, Ch. Ahmad Mukhtar, and the Chinese Defence Minister, General Liang Guangile, put signatures on the agreements on behalf of their respective countries.
Earlier, the seventeen members defence delegation, led by General Liang Guangile, Minister for National Defence of China, called on Federal Minister for Defence, Ch.Ahmad Mukhtar, and exchanged views on bilateral defence cooperation, geo-strategic situation of the region and the anti-terror efforts made by Pakistan. Both sides agreed to further increase military cooperation and strategic communication at all levels so as to overcome the challenges being confronted by the two countries. In order to promote and increase interaction and closer collaboration between the Armed Forces of the two countries, the meeting agreed to hold Joint Exercises by the three forces of the two countries. The meeting discussed the security environment of the region and emphasized the need for making joint efforts to weed out terrorism. It was also agreed to share intelligence gathering which was essential for defeating the terrorist elements.
General Liang Guangile assured his counterpart that China would continue to provide military and economic assistance to Pakistan so as to make it a stronger and prosperous country. He further assured that his country would continue to support Pakistan's stance on different issues on every international forum. Appreciating the unflinching support provided by the Peoples Republic of China to Pakistan, the Minister said that Pakistan was highly indebted to China for supporting Pakistan in difficult times and specially its role in developing & strengthening the defence sector of Pakistan. The meeting was attended by Secretary Defence, Lt General Syed Athar Ali (Retd), Rear Admiral Shah Sohail Masood, Additional Secretary, Ministry of Defence, and other senior military and defence officials of Pakistan.

China to provide PAF 4 trainer aircrafts, 60 Million Yuan for training armed forces | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

[keysersoze]

Anyone got any info on the aircraft? The exercises will be interesting though....Have the chinese engaged in large scale exercises with another country before?

[Neo]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Anyone got any info on the aircraft?

It's the new Chinese advanced trainer L-15. For quite some time we have been looking into various platforms but only two were shortlisted. The L-159 Albatros which was dropped in favor of the L-15.

Pakistan Eyes Acquisition of Chinese Training Aircraft
L-15 Buy Likely Would Phase Out 2 Other Trainers

1 February 2010

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan may acquire the Chinese L-15 supersonic jet trainer aircraft to equip a unit to transition pilots to advanced fighters, eventually reducing the types of trainers in its fleet from four to two.

The need for the aircraft has arisen despite the operation of the Air Force's current basic/advanced jet trainer, the Sino-Pakistani K-8 Karakorum, which is a highly capable aircraft that has won numerous export orders. Experts dispute whether the L-15, manufactured by Hongdu, is a good fit for Pakistan's needs.

Kaiser Tufail, Pakistani defense analyst and former Air Force air commodore, said, "the L-15 makes sense only if K-8 is used solely for basic flying training and L-15 for fighter conversion. In such a case, the [older] T-37 [trainer] would be redundant.

"Considering the extensive [and expensive] structural life enhancement program that theT-37s have undergone, their useful life has been extended by at least 10 more years. The only solution to the dilemma would be to look for a buyer for the T-37s and recover some much-needed foreign exchange."

Tufail added, "Other than this training stream, the L-15 doesn't quite fit if the K-8 is to perform the role of fighter conversion."

However, defense analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium believes the interest in the L-15 is understandable.

The K-8 had been examined by the Air Force as a possible replacement for the current FT-5, a Chinese-made twin-seat MiG-17 Fresco, in the fighter conversion role when it first entered service in the early 1990s, he said. Pakistan also uses a small number of FT-6 trainers, a Chinese-made two-seat Mig-19 Farmer.

However, the Air Force "most likely felt that a dedicated aircraft purpose-built would be a better option," he said. The 1990s were also a time of considerable financial hardship for Pakistan, so the FT-5 therefore continued in service.

Shabbir further stated, "Now that the availability of an affordable and dedicated aircraft from China is assured, it probably led to the decision to go for the type in preparation for the future high-tech jets such as FC-20 andF-16C/D training requirements."

No official word from the Air Force, or the China Aviation Technology Import-Export Corp., was forthcoming. Officials' refusal to confirm the deal may stem from the fact that negotiations have not reached the final stages.

However, the Air Force has conducted detailed examinations of the aircraft, which included a visit of a single L-15 to Pakistan in December as it transited on its way to the Dubai Airshow. Negotiations are now being undertaken on technical aspects and pricing. The time frame for the conclusion of a deal is unknown.

Limited Combat Role

Like the K-8, the L-15 is also useful in the counterinsurgency role as it can carry a light warload of rockets and bombs, plus air-to-air missiles. There is no indication the aircraft is expected to be tasked with this role, but the capability is a point of interest for Pakistan.

The L-15 competed for orders from the People's Liberation Army Air Force and Naval Air Force against the cheaper and less capable JL-9. The JL-9 is heavily based on the F-7 series of fighters and looks set to be the final evolutionary stage of the MiG-21 Fishbed design.

The F-7 also makes up the backbone of Pakistan's Air Force and therefore the JL-9 could bring cost savings due to commonality, but that advantage appears to have been discounted.

This selling point for the JL-9 may have counted against it in the minds of the service's planners, Shabbir said. The L-15 was probably chosen "precisely because it is the more advanced design," and the "JL-9 most likely is not considered a good enough platform due to its F-7 lineage and airframe design, with its associated future growth limitations."

With the Pakistani F-7 variants expected to be retired this decade, the added cost savings associated with selecting the JL-9 would be unlikely to materialize. Also, the L-15 would allow Pakistan to reap economies of scale because of China's extensive modernization program.

Pakistan's interest in the L-15 may therefore have wider implications. Officially, at least, the L-15 has not fully entered service with the Chinese Air Force, but Pakistan's interest may indicate the Chinese are looking at the L-15 in a more favorable light.

Pakistan Eyes Acquisition of Chinese Training Aircraft - Defense News

[Air Marshal]

China to provide 4 trainer aircraft for PAF, Chinese Defense Minister arrives Pakistan

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[Araz]

Originally Posted by Neo

It's the new Chinese advanced trainer L-15. For quite some time we have been looking into various platforms but only two were shortlisted. The L-159 Albatros which was dropped in favor of the L-15.

Neo
is this confirmed? I am hearing that this is K8P with new avionics which is why the event has not been publisized.The 60 million yuan loan is just for training .
Araz

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Araz

Neo
is this confirmed? I am hearing that this is K8P with new avionics which is why the event has not been publisized.The 60 million yuan loan is just for training .
Araz

No Sir, its not confirmed but the L-15 is certainly in the pipeline as the negotiations are in final round.