France says arms sale to Pakistan held up

[sonicboom]

France says arms sale to Pakistan held up

Friday, 02 Apr, 2010



France's plan to sell $1.6 bn worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up.—File photo World

PARIS: France's plan to sell 1.2 billion euro ($1.6 billion) worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said on Friday.

Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles -- the first section of a 6 billion euro contract -- under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan's finances.

“It's a deal that's not ready from the Pakistani side,” the source said, without giving further details. “For now, the state of the dossier doesn't allow us to carry on with it.”

A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales <TCFP.PA> and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment.

France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said.

In February, MBDA said it planned to upgrade India's Mirage 2000 fighters and was looking to expand in India.—Reuters

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...held+up--bi-05

[Neo]

I know many JF-17 fans in Pakistan are devastated by the news and see it as a major set back but there's no need to be worried. It's not the end of the game. It's a political decision that involves Indian military purchases in France, specially the MRCA where the Rafale seems to be winning and the M2k upgrade which will have similar technology as discussed with PAF.

One thing we've learnt over the years is to never put all our eggs in one basket. All I can say at this moment is that PAF had calculated the risks of this deal coming into jeopardy by Indian pressure so we've looked into other options and they are as good as the french deal. Just wait till PakDef profs release some news, I will do the rest.

Btw, French deal is stalled for the moment, not completely canceled. France doesn't want to lose a client like Pakistan who's military importance and requirements will only grow in near future which means big business for French defense industry. So even the French are involved in the back-up plans. We still have two years to complete first batch of Chinese equipped Block I. So there's time.

[Zaki]

I was actually thinking to go ahead with Chiense avionics instead and try to absorb their technology in our aviation industries. It will help us improve our industry in long term

And buy more FC-20s with the same money...... 1.6 billion dollars is a huge amount and we can buy decent aircrafts with that money say go for 72 FC-20s instead of 36?

We are not going in war in short term as long as Americans are there in Afghanistan and need our help to fight Talibans. So try to get more transfer of technology by investing little further in the JF-17 project?

Just my opinion

[Araz]

Originally Posted by Neo

I know many JF-17 fans in Pakistan are devastated by the news and see it as a major set back but there's no need to be worried. It's not the end of the game. It's a political decision that involves Indian military purchases in France, specially the MRCA where the Rafale seems to be winning and the M2k upgrade which will have similar technology as discussed with PAF.

One thing we've learnt over the years is to never put all our eggs in one basket. All I can say at this moment is that PAF had calculated the risks of this deal coming into jeopardy by Indian pressure so we've looked into other options and they are as good as the french deal. Just wait till PakDef profs release some news, I will do the rest.

Btw, French deal is stalled for the moment, not completely canceled. France doesn't want to lose a client like Pakistan who's military importance and requirements will only grow in near future which means big business for French defense industry. So even the French are involved in the back-up plans. We still have two years to complete first batch of Chinese equipped Block I. So there's time.

Neo
An important aspect that was missed by most posters was that the deal seems to have been held back by Pakistani Government,ie Mr 10%. there can be 2 aspects to it. Either french want us to do a bigger deal including the subs and frigates or Pakistani circles cannot come up with the deposit. This may be pertinent as IMF is on the verge of releasing the 3rd tranche of payment and PAkistan does not want a big deal announced at this moment. In either case .as you rightly said there is time at hand for us.India can simply not keep everyone happy and the fallout from their MRCA contract will fall in our laps.We also have to keep the chinese angle in sight, as they are progressing in leaps and bounds .
Araz

[Mastankhan]

Hi,

Another piece of bad management---seems like we went intot his deal feet first. At the end of the day it may not make a big difference, but momentarily it makes you feel somewhat impotent---so get this feeling----are we ever going to get a fair break from our leadership and managers.

One good thing that came out of it is the timing of the news---could not have been any better---paf can now make a firm decision which way to go now---chinese will offer a very competent package.

[Mastankhan]

Originally Posted by Mastankhan

Hi,

Another piece of bad management---seems like we went intot his deal feet first. At the end of the day it may not make a big difference, but momentarily it makes you feel somewhat impotent---so get this feeling----are we ever going to get a fair break from our leadership and managers.

One good thing that came out of it is the timing of the news---could not have been any better---paf can now make a firm decision which way to go now---chinese will offer a very competent package.

Some consolation to my pakistani colleagues

YouTube

YouTube

[Mastankhan]

Hi,

Paf has been stung twice from the same source----and it is a major major debacle--. The first one was in the 90's regarding the purchase and failure to nuy the M@K's---and then this one now---. A bad bad mark on the PAF and its strategic planning wing.

Actually, if you look at the history of strategic planning by the PAF---without holding any emotion---you would realizxe that it has been pi-ss poor in quality and horrendously incompetent in planning and completely terrible in assessing the threat level by the enemy.

This was such a major purchase by the paf , because of the radar and weapons systems involved---to take the JF 17 to the next level of its operational abilities and enhanced weapons systems.

Prior to this the PAF failed to assess the threat level from the IAF after 9/11---it mistook the peace overtures by Musharraf as thge reawl thing and by not ordering a high quality fighetr interceptor plane on fast track after 9/11, it totally failed itself and the nation to get the right item and equipment to substantiate a strong defence of the nations skies.

PAF has been totally callous in understanding the importance of time factor bert 9/11 and 2005---they fail to understand that the difference in time has a multiplier effect on the ompotency of the force.

They truly have a very difficult time understanding their real worth. I firmly believe that the pak air force is totally living in ether after reading the comments of the Wing commander who made the landing and take off from the freeway on pakistan today---according to him this excercise is a slap on the face of enemy.

This item is readable in jang news today---I mean to ask what is this guy thinking---it is as if he has conquered jerusalem---dude---mr wing commander---it was a freeway landing---no big deal---don't make it more than what it truly is---other nations have done it years and years ago----and if india has not done it---it doesnot mean that it cannot do it---but rather due to its strategic depth and superior air craft, multiple air fields, it doesnot need to do it if they have not done it yet.

So, this bragging by the officer, if he did it, was senseless and doesnot merit any acknowledgement of superiority.

If I was a pakistani, I would be truly concerned.

[Mastankhan]

Hi,

Pshamim on our sister board has brought out some serious flaws in the dealings with the french---whereas the capabilities and the quality of the JF 17 far exceed what was expected from the plane---which has posed a threat to the sales of aircraft by france and russia---. Could that be sufficient reason for the french to back out of the agreed upon sale---personally, I very much doubt it---.

Is there pressure from the u s not to go ahead with the sale---possibly. At this time there are too many variables and speculations as to what happened or what is happening. Possibly the picture will get clearer in the coming days.

On the other hand we have issues with the purchase of FC 20 as well---even though its specs and performance are exactly what pakistan had demanded---. Seemingly, this time pakistan has come up with an excuse according to Pshamim that it was to see the performance of this plane once it gets integrated into PLAAF---another monkey wrench in the works---.

Gentlemen and ladies----we have SERIOS PROBLEMS in the making one more time. Pak millitary weapons procurement is in heading towards deeep trouble.

It also proves that the french are very poor salesmen---paf will come out of it succefully but with a scar to prove its will to fight---china will up the ante and so will the italians---I still believe that the french might see the daylight in the end---which I know is asking for too much---HEIN---HEIN---HEIN.

[Oracle]

India and France has been dealing a lot recently - Civilian Nuclear Energy, Military technology, Equipment upgrades etc. So, if Indian lobbying has indeed made the French Govt. to held up the deal, it is infact good foreign policy adopted by India.

However, I personally feel, India cannot bog down France, even though we have excellent relations with France.

I just remember, a couple of days back, France backed India's permanent seat at UNSC.

But, who knows?

[Mastankhan]

Here is a French article with their admission over jf-17 as an emerging challenge for Mirage 2000-9s.

"A military contract with Pakistan blocked by Paris By RFI According to the Le Monde daily newspaper, Paris decided to block a big contract d' equipment of defense intended for Pakistan, l' electronics, and of the missiles which were intended to equip l' Pakistani fighter plan JF 17 manufactured with China. A contract of which the first section s' raise to 1 billion 200 d' million; euros - on a total of 6 billion, which could thus fall to l' water, not to annoy l' India, but to also perhaps protect l' French aircraft industry. The small hunter sino-Pakistani JF-17 enters in service in 2007, but very quickly, the soldiers Pakistani are not satisfied with l' Chinese electronics. They then decide to re-equip their planes with European systems. Companies Thalès and MBDA are selected. According to Le Monde, in 2008, interdepartmental Commission d' study of exports of weaponry gives an favorable opinion but, always according to the French daily newspaper, at three weeks of the visit in Paris of the First Pakistani minister Youssouf Raza Gilani, Paris would have made volte-face. The chief of the Pakistani government is waited on April 19 in Paris for an official visit. Pakistan would not give enough guarantees, in particular relative with the protection of French technology. Radars and missiles very last thing could find with the hands of the Chinese, main d' work of program JF-17 (Thunder). With the s' technology matters; add diplomatic and commercial stakes, because France is also under discussion to sell weaponry in New Delhi. Froisser would thus not need the Indian neighbor. Lastly, if France wants to export its Rafale in the United Arab Emirates, it must find a transferee for Mirages 2000 of l' army émirati. However, these planes could be resold in Pakistan. But if the JF 17 are modernized, l' Pakistani army n' more need for these Mirages d' will have; occasion… " From nabil-05


Hi,

What has happened in france, is like an onion has been presented to the pakistani public---you will have to take off one layer at a time to get to the middle of things.

Inadvertantly, the french have done us a great favour----this favour may open the flood gates---here is what the french are saying if I understand this news correctly---JF 17 is an extremely potent aircraft---on the same level as that of the Mirage 2000-9 once equipped with the weapons systems that have been designed by the french for this plane.

This news should increase the interest level of the air forces who were thinking about this plane seriously---it will get them over the hump---for those who were in an iffy position, they will suddenly become serious candidates.

The french have only hurt their own cause by negating this deal---why would someone except for pakistan want to get the mirage 2000-9 when they can get the JF 17.

Well---pakistan should get the Mirage 2000-9, because that will make the deal to be consumated, the m2k9 are an extremely deadly proven over the years strike aircraft with many other qualities and they won't have to worry about the issue of integration---plus it will give the french a face saving in front of the world.