PakistanTalk Forum

 

Go Back   PakistanTalk Forums > Defence & Geostrategy > Air Force


Air Force Forum to discuss Pakistan Air Force (PAF) topics related to PAF aircraft, training, capabilities and technologies.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-17-2009, 07:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default UAV, Drones, etc

Click the image to open in full size.

Looking at the facility from outside, no one would guess what goes on within the 90,000-square-foot research facility of Integrated Dynamics (ID), a privately owned company in Karachi’s Korangi area. There are no signboards indicating that ID is in the business of developing drone technology for military and civilian use. Surprisingly, there isn’t even an army of security guards manning the complex as one would expect upon entering the gate. A lonesome gate keeper lets us in without a fuss.

Even more startling is the ease with which Raja Sabri Khan, ID's chief executive, states that ‘drone technology has existed in Pakistan for the last 20 years.’

Khan, who graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology with a master's degree in aeronautics and astronautics, is quick to clarify that his company has ‘never been asked to develop a drone which has an armed implication.’ Instead, ID develops advanced Unmanned Autonomous Vehicle (UAV) systems capable of reconnaissance missions as well as target decoys for anti-aircraft missiles. His customers, he says, include the armed forces of the country as well as foreign buyers from the US, Australia, Spain, Italy and France.

Although he may not have been asked to develop an armed drone, Khan, who previously worked as a consultant for Pakistan’s aerospace agency Suparco, points out: ‘If we consider the fact that drone development has been taking place in Pakistan for the last 20 years, I think the technology for flying long-range autonomous missions has existed for at least 10-12 years.’

Given Khan's estimations about local drone development, it is unclear why Pakistan is asking the US to handover its armed drone technology, especially that of the infamous Predator. President Asif Ali Zardari recently told the British daily Independent that the US should give Pakistan the ‘weapons, drones and missiles that will allow us to take care of’ the militant threat in the tribal areas.'


UAVs in Pakistan

Interestingly, there are several public sector companies involved in developing UAVs in Pakistan, including the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Air Weapons Complex (AWC) and National Development Complex (NDC).

The PAC's Uqaab drone is in use by the Pakistan Army, and, according to unconfirmed reports, is being upgraded with Chinese help to carry a weapons payload. Other PAC UAVs include the Bazz and Ababeel. AWC's Bravo+ UAV is in use of the Pakistan Airforce (PAF). The PAF recently acquired an unarmed Italian drone called the Falco UAV, which is reportedly being used for surveillance and battleground assessments in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas. In 2008, the Pakistan Navy also reportedly completed trials of UAVs - the Austrian Schiebel Camcopter S-100 and Swedish Cybaero - from a Pakistani frigate in the Arabian Sea.

Private sector companies are also involved in the design and development of UAVs. Apart from ID in Karachi, East-West Infinity (EWI), Satuma and Global Industrial Defense Solutions (GIDS) are in the drone-making business.
The EWI's Heliquad UAV is considered a stealth design because of its small size and Whisper Watch signals intelligence package, which is capable of picking up radio and other communication signals. ID's Nishan Mk1 and TJ1000, Vision MK1 & MK2, Tornado, Border Eagle, Hornet, Hawk and Vector are also popular models employed by the armed forces for reconnaissance missions and target practice (each model varies in range and endurance). Satuma's UAVs, with similar functionalities, are called Flamingo, Jasoos and Mukhbar. For its part, the GIDS develops the Huma-1 UAV and its own version of the Uqaab.

Even though almost all UAVs in the country have been built for military applications - reconnaissance, simulations, decoy systems, remote sensing - none of them are reported to be capable of firing arms. Moreover, none of the above-mentioned facilities are involved in large-scale, mass production of UAVs.

Policy on drones

It is still not clear what Pakistan’s policy regarding unmanned drones is. On the one hand, Pakistan has ‘condemn[ed] in the strongest terms’ any US drone attack. On the other hand, reports have emerged that the US has the tacit approval of the current government.

Previously, former president Pervez Musharraf had reportedly authorized Washingtonto launch Predator drones from secret bases near Islamabad and Jacobabad. Google Earth imagesof an airbase in Balochistan hosting Predators had also emerged at a time when Pakistan was adamantly claiming that all drones were flying in from Afghanistan. More recently, the Pakistan Army ‘practiced’ shooting down drones, but even then, foreign aircrafts continued to rain in their missiles.

ID's Khan explains that shooting down drones to prevent attacks is a viable option. ‘From a technical standpoint, all it takes is a simple air-to-air or surface-to-air missile to bring the drone down. Almost all of these aircrafts have a very low radar signature. But they’re not undetectable. They can be detected,' he says. 'The question really is whether one wants to bring one down or not.'

Drones vs. casualties


According to news reports, US drone attacks have killed around 701 people in Pakistan since 2006, including 14 alleged Al Qaeda leaders. Although armed UAVs or drones provide safety to their operators since they cannot be harmed if the aircrafts are shot down during combat operations, they come at the cost of scores of civilian casualties, who bear the brunt of aerial raids. Therefore, it is debatable whether the armed drones, even if built and controlled by Pakistan, would actually make a difference in terms of changing the sentiment of the people against their devastating impact.

The way forward

Apart from their use in a military context, there is a need to deploy UAVs for the benefit of Pakistani communities. UAVs abroad are being used for a variety of civilian services, including search and rescue operations, environmental analysis, assisting local law enforcers, scientific research and even transport. Situational awareness about a potentially hazardous or calamity-hit areas, for example, in the aftermath of an earthquake, could also be gained through the use of such systems.

The responsibility of implementing this vision rests not only with the companies that develop UAVs, but also with government bodies that should utilise drones to improve their image and efficiency. After all, drones are not exclusively killing machines.


Source.
mean_bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 07:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

Flying high in Korangi

Dawn.com visits the facilities of Integrated Dynamics, located in Karachi’s Korangi district. The private company develops aerospace and robotic systems, including unmanned autonomous vehicles (UAVs), which are currently in use by the Pakistan army for reconnaissance, simulations and target practice.

Click the image to open in full size.
Raja Sabri Khan, chief executive of Integrated Dynamics, is seen here at his UAV research and development centre in Korangi, Karachi.


Click the image to open in full size.
The Tornado is a target and decoy UAV with a range of over 200 kilometres. It can reach speeds of up to 300 knots and can emit false radar signals to confuse enemy air defences.


Click the image to open in full size.
According to Khan, the core team at his company comprises only 14 people.


Click the image to open in full size.
An UAV in the earliest stages of development.


Click the image to open in full size.
The space in which UAV prototypes are designed and developed.


Click the image to open in full size.
The Nishan MK-II is seen here against the backdrop of Shadow and Explorer UAVs. The Nishan has a wingspan of over 9 feet and is considered a high-speed aerial target or decoy. Its range is limited to 35 kilometres.


Click the image to open in full size.
The Border Eagle is a surveillance UAV that comes equipped with both a still and video camera along with a chemical monitoring module. The US Homeland Security department is reportedly using this drone to patrol its borders.


Click the image to open in full size.
The explorer is one of the two advanced civilian UAV systems offered by Integrated Dynamics. It has a 20-kilometre range and is equipped with sensors suited for scientific research programmes.


Click the image to open in full size.
The Shadow is also a surveillance UAV that has a speed of over 200 kilometres per hour and can operate within a 200-kilometre range.


Click the image to open in full size.
The Rover is a civilian UAV typically used for electronic news gathering and rapid information relay.


Click the image to open in full size.
Integrated Dynamics also features ground station units that are used in combination with the UAV systems.


Click the image to open in full size.
A large variety of UAVs are manufactured by Integrated Dynamics at the facility in Karachi.



Source
mean_bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 07:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

India voices concerns over drone sale to Pak


NEW DELHI: Indian External Affairs Minister S M Krishna has reacted to a possible arms deal involving sale of US drones to Pakistan. Krishna has emphatically told America that an arms sale would create instability in the region adding that in the past, such weapons have always been used against India.

Pakistan has drawn up a big list of military purchases from the United States. But, what's worrying India is that Islamabad is lobbying hard to get the deadly Predators Drones from the United States.

The worries of New Delhi are that any military equipment bought by Pakistan is essentially meant to be used against India, said Indian External Affairs Minister S M Krishna.

Pakistan is seeking Predator Drones from the United States saying they need the drones to fight militancy along the Afghan border. But, invariably the drones would be used along the Indian border both for spying and combat missions, he worried

A list has been drawn up and they include helicopters, night vision devices, laser guided ammunition.

Predator drones are particularly worrisome as they constitute top of the line technology. They are unmanned aerial vehicles with weaponry that can accurately hit targets. The United States is using them extensively for fighting militants, including in parts of Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province area.

India does not have anything equivalent to the predators and there is concern about India having them. Currently India is working to get an equivalent of the predator. This is the Harop system from Israel but it will be a long time before India gets them, he added.
mean_bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 04:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 252
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

These drones can stop probably yhe people that according to Indians wants to attack India... So if we cannot have them then they should stop telling that we do nothing.
Munir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 04:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
Lt. Colonel
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 615
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

predator is too expensive i think - pakistan would rather go for - a j-10 than goign for a drone.

although its like comparing apples to coconut but - econmics is a bigger issue than anything for pakistan.
__________________
[B]I am the master of my unspoken words, and a slave to those that should have remained unspoken. [/B]
duhastmish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 05:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
PDR Ambassador
Lt. Colonel
 
Interceptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 524
Thanks: 68
Thanked 49 Times in 34 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhastmish View Post
predator is too expensive i think - pakistan would rather go for - a j-10 than goign for a drone.

although its like comparing apples to coconut but - econmics is a bigger issue than anything for pakistan.
Who said we pay for it, it comes under military aid program, there is a fund allocated and the military can only use the money to buy American weapons nothing else.
__________________
That freedom can never be attained by a nation without suffering and sacrifice... We are in the midst of unparalleled difficulties and untold sufferings; we have been through dark days of apprehension and anguish; but I can say with confidence that with courage and self-reliance and by the Grace of God we shall emerge triumphant.

Quaid-e-Azam
Interceptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 05:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
Lt. Colonel
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 615
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

oh then thats a very good deal - i think you should also go for some f-22 that will help pakistan to no boundries. and some awacs . more over pakistan also need - a missile shield .

American being the good ol friends will be more than happy to provide it.


dude we all know - american will never ever provide pakistan with such state of art technology these buggers have always used pakistan for their own benefit . this money is no thankyou check - the war also cost to pkaistan,

anyways if its true congratulations and may pakistan also get f-22.
__________________
[B]I am the master of my unspoken words, and a slave to those that should have remained unspoken. [/B]
duhastmish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 05:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
PDR Ambassador
Lt. Colonel
 
Interceptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 524
Thanks: 68
Thanked 49 Times in 34 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhastmish View Post
oh then thats a very good deal - i think you should also go for some f-22 that will help pakistan to no boundries. and some awacs . more over pakistan also need - a missile shield .

American being the good ol friends will be more than happy to provide it.


dude we all know - american will never ever provide pakistan with such state of art technology these buggers have always used pakistan for their own benefit . this money is no thankyou check - the war also cost to pkaistan,

anyways if its true congratulations and may pakistan also get f-22.
Nice thanks for the suggestions we had b-2 stealth bombers on mind but f-22 will do!lol

Military aid is something the US is giving us to fight the WoT. It might seem that the Predator is not in our reach but so is winning this war and giving these Americans a graceful exit. They might as well hand over the predator to Pakistan since its not helping them with anti-US sentiment. Right now the US is seeing a permanent stay in Afghanistan they should think about having good relations with Pakistan. If they can go ahead with giving F-16's than there seems to be an option.
__________________
That freedom can never be attained by a nation without suffering and sacrifice... We are in the midst of unparalleled difficulties and untold sufferings; we have been through dark days of apprehension and anguish; but I can say with confidence that with courage and self-reliance and by the Grace of God we shall emerge triumphant.

Quaid-e-Azam
Interceptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 05:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
Lt. Colonel
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 615
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

lol - yeh like they would - see pakistan is not demanding - too much even if they are askign for drone or f-16 ,
Problem is they wont get it because what american are givign is way too much important to pakistani politicans i.e us DOLLARS .

thats the story of it. i dont think pakistan will gain naything from this war. the money they are g etting is not being spent on intended objectives.
__________________
[B]I am the master of my unspoken words, and a slave to those that should have remained unspoken. [/B]
duhastmish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 06:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
PDR Ambassador
Major
 
Araz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 459
Thanks: 20
Thanked 72 Times in 52 Posts
Default Re: UAV, Drones, etc

Fellows.
Irrespective of what we do USA is not going to give us UCAVS. Their genuine concern remains leakage of sensitive technology and courting inida might become difficult, if they provide Pakistan with Drone tech.So the next best bet is to collaborate with friendly countries and build our own. China has recently demonstrated a new Predator like drone.Perhaps in collaboration with our private companies and assign them specific tasks to come up with in a specified period. Such a joint venture might work.
Araz
Araz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 - Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.